Time to relax our draconian laws on drugs?

[markjay]

I'm in two minds here, on one hand the extra tax revenue would be useful to the government, on the other hand I'm amazed at the amount of people I know who smoke weed but will then happily drive their car, if legalizing makes more people users then I'm concerned about the road safety aspect, at least until the drug driving safety aspect becomes the norm in much the same way as drink driving has.

Very good point.

 

[Bellow]

BUT (a very big BUT): Studies show that where a previously illegal controlled substance is decriminalised, consumption goes up drastically. This means that many more people use it and suffer the ill effects of using the substances compared to when it was illegal.

Wow! That's some problem. More people getting what they want in their lives without fear of criminalisation.
Worth noting that cannabis use tends to reduce alcohol consumption, An overall benefit for a number of reasons.

So what is one to do....? Legalising drugs will remove criminality and enrich the government, but will cause a massive increase in usage and addiction.

Not all drugs are addictive.
Can we stick with the facts please? Misinformation is one reason we are in this pitiful hole.

So what is one to do....? Legalising drugs will remove criminality and enrich the government, but will cause a massive increase in usage and addiction.

If heroin was legalised today and in the shops tomorrow - who is rushing down to Tesco to buy some?

 

[John N]

[QUOTE="Bellow, post: 2834954, member: Not all drugs are addictive.[/QUOTE]

Bold statement Doctor, please name the "Drugs" that are categorized as"Not Addictive"!

 

[Mancstar]

[QUOTE="Bellow, post: 2834954, member: Not all drugs are addictive.

Bold statement Doctor, please name the "Drugs" that are categorized as"Not Addictive"![/QUOTE]

I think what he is trying to say is not all drugs will create a neurological addiction.

A persons enviromental circumstance can lead to addiction - people, places, and things are huge influences on people who decide to pick up drugs or alcohol. The prevalence poverty, abuse, exposure, and peer pressure can all play a major role. A positive change in a persons environment can banish any addiction they have had. I.e. person suffering abuse may decide to get high to forget about the trauma, not for the buzzing dopamine affect.

Interesting topic to be honest, we all love a bit of dopamine, how its is released is down to each person. Gambling addicts have shown to get a big high (dopamine release) after a big win, as do more spiritual people after a devoted, religious act (prayer/pilgrimage).

 

[John N]

Bold statement Doctor, please name the "Drugs" that are categorized as"Not Addictive"!

I think what he is trying to say is not all drugs will create a neurological addiction.

A persons enviromental circumstance can lead to addiction - people, places, and things are huge influences on people who decide to pick up drugs or alcohol. The prevalence poverty, abuse, exposure, and peer pressure can all play a major role. A positive change in a persons environment can banish any addiction they have had. I.e. person suffering abuse may decide to get high to forget about the trauma, not for the buzzing dopamine affect.

Interesting topic to be honest, we all love a bit of dopamine, how its is released is down to each person. Gambling addicts have shown to get a big high (dopamine release) after a big win, as do more spiritual people after a devoted, religious act (prayer/pilgrimage).[/QUOTE]

Interesting input, but avoiding my question to Bellow!

 

[Bellow]

[QUOTE="Bellow, post: 2834954, member: Not all drugs are addictive.

Bold statement Doctor, please name the "Drugs" that are categorized as"Not Addictive"![/QUOTE]

Alcohol and cannabis - neither are either psychologically or physically addictive - to name two. There may be others.
(The alcoholic brings his own addictive personality - not the alcohol).

 

[bes1110]

Bold statement Doctor, please name the "Drugs" that are categorized as"Not Addictive"!

Alcohol and cannabis - neither are either psychologically or physically addictive - to name two. There may be others.
(The alcoholic brings his own addictive personality - not the alcohol).

maybe you should do a bit of research before making such bold statements, search delirium tremens.

alcohol and benzodiazepines are two of the most dangerous drugs to quit cold turkey.

 

[Bellow]

maybe you should do a bit of research before making such bold statements, search delirium tremens.

alcohol and benzodiazepines are two of the dangerous drugs two quit cold turkey.

The percentage of alcoholics relative to alcohol users is tiny. You would have to be so far gone (and yes, I've seen the types - drinking red wine from a pint glass in one swallow) to be risking death from withdrawal. Cold turkey is but one method of quitting - gradual reduction is an option.

A bigger concern is the addictive nature of computer games that kids play. Purposely configured to be addictive they are training youngsters to be dependent on addiction. What will feed that need if they tire of the games (or supplement them) is anyone's guess but the bookies are bidding for them and the harm gambling can do has to be seen up close to be believed. I've also seen a paedophile (chasing indecent images on the 'net) claim (believably) it was the 'thrill of the chase' that drove his behaviour claiming it to be compulsive to the point of addictive.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

Bold statement Doctor, please name the "Drugs" that are categorized as"Not Addictive"!

Alcohol and cannabis - neither are either psychologically or physically addictive - to name two. There may be others.
(The alcoholic brings his own addictive personality - not the alcohol).

From the NHS website:

“Research shows that 10% of regular cannabis users become dependent on it. Your risk of getting addicted is higher if you start using it in your teens or use it every day.

“As with other addictive drugs, such as cocaine and heroin, you can develop a tolerance to cannabis. This means you need more to get the same effect.

“Regular cannabis use increases your risk of developing a psychotic illness, such as schizophrenia.”​

Sorry Bellow, but I prefer to take the NHS’s advice on health over yours.

 

[Bellow]

From the NHS website:

“Research shows that 10% of regular cannabis users become dependent on it. Your risk of getting addicted is higher if you start using it in your teens or use it every day.

“As with other addictive drugs, such as cocaine and heroin, you can develop a tolerance to cannabis. This means you need more to get the same effect.​

True of just about everything including alcohol - and of little importance. Just take what you want until you're where you want to be. Pubs are open until late.

“Regular cannabis use increases your risk of developing a psychotic illness, such as schizophrenia.”

Sorry Bellow, but I prefer to take the NHS’s advice on health over yours.

Yep, seen a few of those as well. What no one tells you is they were fuct in the head long before they got anywhere near drugs.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

From the NHS website:

“Research shows that 10% of regular cannabis users become dependent on it. Your risk of getting addicted is higher if you start using it in your teens or use it every day.

“As with other addictive drugs, such as cocaine and heroin, you can develop a tolerance to cannabis. This means you need more to get the same effect.

“Regular cannabis use increases your risk of developing a psychotic illness, such as schizophrenia.”​

Sorry Bellow, but I prefer to take the NHS’s advice on health over yours.

I wouldn't put too much faith in the NHS website, they do tend to err on the side of caution.

 

[Bellow]

The drug/psychological condition that is always overlooked and widespread is alcohol and bi-polar. I can hardly think of a worse combination. Anyone on the bi-polar spectrum still drinking can immediately change their life for the better by binning alcohol. But cringe at the very thought.

 

[markjay]

I don't think there's a medical case for consumption of any drug by healthy people.

(The benefits of red wine come from the skin of the red grape, the alcohol is redundant)

There are cultural reasons (social drinking), Libertarian arguments (let people choose if they want to harm themselves or not, it's not a matter for the government to decide), and possibly others.

But health benefits for healthy people? None that I know of.

 

[Bellow]

I don't think there's a medical case for consumption of any drug by healthy people.

(The benefits of red wine come from the skin of the red grape, the alcohol is redundant)

There are cultural reasons (social drinking), Libertarian arguments (let people choose if they want to harm themselves or not, it's not a matter for the government to decide), and possibly others.

But health benefits for healthy people? None that I know of.

Relaxation - stress being a known killer.

 

[markjay]

Relaxation - stress being a known killer.

I beg to differ - it's a slippery slope.

When someone is under stress, the correct course of action is firstly trying to resolve the underlying issues and reduce the level of stress, then developing coping techniques.

'Fixing' stress via consumption of chemicals should always be the very last resort. It is usually not a sustainable solution in the longer term anyway, and often causes more problems than it solves.

So I would say that if someone is chronically stressed, they should not mask it by using alcohol or cannabis etc - because if they do that, things are likely to get worse, not better.

 

[Bellow]

We're humans MJ not Vulcans.
Why do you suppose a Friday night is a busy night for a pub? Millions imbibe something or other routinely and very very few come to harm. You know, sometimes you have to accept that people know what's best for them - and trust them accordingly.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

We're humans MJ not Vulcans.
Why do you suppose a Friday night is a busy night for a pub? Millions imbibe something or other routinely and very very few come to harm. You know, sometimes you have to accept that people know what's best for them - and trust them accordingly.

Diazepam and cider so I'm told.

 

[markjay]

We're humans MJ not Vulcans...

I know, the missus calls me Mr Spock...

 

[Kamisuma]

Bold statement Doctor, please name the "Drugs" that are categorized as"Not Addictive"!

Alcohol and cannabis - neither are either psychologically or physically addictive - to name two. There may be others.
(The alcoholic brings his own addictive personality - not the alcohol).

I think that is a naiive and narrow outlook.
Please tell me how you became an expert on addiction to make such a bold and dubious statement and how you are qualified so to do?
There are various factors that can lead to addiction, many of which are psychologically driven. Quite a few of those living rough have alcohol and drug related problems with many root causes some from before and others as a result of living rough. If it was not addictive on both counts there would be little need for organisations like Alcoholics Anonymous, The Samaritans and similar organisations to help addicts.
Tell that to an alcoholic and those who deal with the direct and indirect effects both on the alcoholic and their family. Have a chat with Callum Best about hid dad who died even after receiving much help because he could not give up his addiction even though he knew it was killing him. Quite a few current and ex footballers have alcohol and drug problems and others have died as a result. Remember that these were well paid individuals many of whom received treatment and other help, similarly with many in the entertainment industry.

It is a complex issue that should not be trivialised.

 

[Bellow]

I think that is a naiive and narrow outlook.
Please tell me how you became an expert on addiction to make such a bold and dubious statement and how you are qualified so to do?
There are various factors that can lead to addiction, many of which are psychologically driven. Quite a few of those living rough have alcohol and drug related problems with many root causes some from before and others as a result of living rough. If it was not addictive on both counts there would be little need for organisations like Alcoholics Anonymous, The Samaritans and similar organisations to help addicts.
Tell that to an alcoholic and those who deal with the direct and indirect effects both on the alcoholic and their family. Have a chat with Callum Best about hid dad who died even after receiving much help because he could not give up his addiction even though he knew it was killing him. Quite a few current and ex footballers have alcohol and drug problems and others have died as a result. Remember that these were well paid individuals many of whom received treatment and other help, similarly with many in the entertainment industry.

It is a complex issue that should not be trivialised.

Like I said, the alcoholic brings his own addictive personality. The psychosis is in the person - not the bottle.
How many safely enjoy alcohol relative to those who have a problem with it?