Towing a caravan . Cooling issues ?

[JHS]

Read it literally rather than apply it to your car: it says that YOU are allowed to tow a trailer up to 3500kg, rather than your CAR is allowed to tow up to 3500kg. Driving licenses relate to people, rather than cars.

You are right of course but in the real world you are limited by the Gross Train Weight and that is what you will be prosecuted for exceeding, regardless of the 3.5T allowed for you personally on your DL.
The car is the limiting factor, not your driving licence.
The licence should really say words to the effect that you can tow up to 3500 if the GTW of the towing vehicle allows. In fact it does.

"The size of the trailer depends on the BE ‘valid from’ date shown on your licence. If the date is:

• before 19 January 2013, you can tow any size trailer within the towing limits of the vehicle
• on or after 19 January 2013, you can tow a trailer with a MAM of up to 3,500kg within the towing limits of the vehicle" The part in bold is what some people fail to register.

Others may disagree but I will stick with my interpretation and be safe in the knowledge that the DVLA inspectors will wave me on my way.

 

[BTB 500]

Even forgetting the legalities of it, towing something that weighs 3.5 ton behind a 2 ton vehicle is just stupid.....if it gets into a snake you simply wont have enough car weight to stop it. The dog needs to be controlling the tail rather than the other way around.

With a caravan on a motorway or dual carriageway, certainly. But a low trailer (particularly twin axle) on local trips would be a different matter - people do this all the time.

 

[ALFAitalia]

I speed (a little bit....like everyone else) all the time.....does not make it right, safe or legal!!

 

[JHS]

What am I missing here? every farmer in the land (incl me) is towing 3.5t trailers behind 2t pickups

A regular part of Lincolnshire life!

 

[JHS]

With a caravan on a motorway or dual carriageway, certainly. But a low trailer (particularly twin axle) on local trips would be a different matter - people do this all the time.

There is a difference between what is physically possible and what is legally permissible.

 

[BTB 500]

I speed (a little bit....like everyone else) all the time.....does not make it right, safe or legal!!

Correct, speeding is never legal. But towing a low trailer that weighs more than the vehicle but is below its plated towing limit is legal, and plenty of people do it safely every single day.

 

[BTB 500]

There is a difference between what is physically possible and what is legally permissible.

Is there? A vehicle's trailer limit is set based on what is physically possible (e.g. the test process involves a hill start on a specified gradient), and as we've established it's legally permissible to tow up to that weight.

 

[ALFAitalia]

Except its not!!....Believe what you wish. Why would VOSA/Police stop and check these things if it was legal anyway. I'll leave it there

 

[ALFAitalia]

Another example is that until recently Land Rover used to deliver smaller Land Rovers to some of their more local dealers on a trailer behind a Proper Range Rover with a 3.5 ton tow limit. The Police prosecuted due to the trailer/car combo weighing more than the tow car. Land Rovers defence was not only was the vehicle designed to tow 3.5 ton it was not a normal road car but a utilitarian vehicle designed with such use in mind....They lost.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

You are right of course but in the real world you are limited by the Gross Train Weight and that is what you will be prosecuted for exceeding, regardless of the 3.5T allowed for you personally on your DL.
The car is the limiting factor, not your driving licence.
The licence should really say words to the effect that you can tow up to 3500 if the GTW of the towing vehicle allows. In fact it does.

"The size of the trailer depends on the BE ‘valid from’ date shown on your licence. If the date is:

• before 19 January 2013, you can tow any size trailer within the towing limits of the vehicle
• on or after 19 January 2013, you can tow a trailer with a MAM of up to 3,500kg within the towing limits of the vehicle" The part in bold is what some people fail to register.

Others may disagree but I will stick with my interpretation and be safe in the knowledge that the DVLA inspectors will wave me on my way.

Towing based upon the car’s GTW isn’t your interpretation, it’s the law. GTW relates to the vehicle, not the driver.

The driver is limited by what’s on their licence, the vehicle is limited by what’s on the VIN plate, the towbar is limited by what it’s rated to.

Whichever of those is most restricted in any given driving licence, vehicle and towbar combination is the maximum permissible for that combination.

It follows the “weakest link in the chain” principle, whichever link is weakest limits the strength of the chain.

 

[tonysmb]

You are right of course but in the real world you are limited by the Gross Train Weight and that is what you will be prosecuted for exceeding, regardless of the 3.5T allowed for you personally on your DL.
The car is the limiting factor, not your driving licence.
The licence should really say words to the effect that you can tow up to 3500 if the GTW of the towing vehicle allows. In fact it does.

"The size of the trailer depends on the BE ‘valid from’ date shown on your licence. If the date is:

• before 19 January 2013, you can tow any size trailer within the towing limits of the vehicle
• on or after 19 January 2013, you can tow a trailer with a MAM of up to 3,500kg within the towing limits of the vehicle" The part in bold is what some people fail to register.

Others may disagree but I will stick with my interpretation and be safe in the knowledge that the DVLA inspectors will wave me on my way.

Of course that's correct. I can drive goods vehicles up to 7500kg. That doesn't mean that I can drive a van plated at 3500kg and simply load it up to 7500kg. I would have thought that that was obvious but clearly not.

 

[JHS]

Towing based upon the car’s GTW isn’t your interpretation, it’s the law. GTW relates to the vehicle, not the driver.

The driver is limited by what’s on their licence, the vehicle is limited by what’s on the VIN plate, the towbar is limited by what it’s rated to.

Whichever of those is most restricted in any given driving licence, vehicle and towbar combination is the maximum permissible for that combination.

It follows the “weakest link in the chain” principle, whichever link is weakest limits the strength of the chain.

I completely agree with you, that is why my interpretation is in line with the law.
Some others disagree however.

 

[JHS]

Correct, speeding is never legal. But towing a low trailer that weighs more than the vehicle but is below its plated towing limit is legal, and plenty of people do it safely every single day.

It would be interesting to see such a vehicle that has a legally permitted towing weight greater than its GVW.

 

[BTB 500]

Another example is that until recently Land Rover used to deliver smaller Land Rovers to some of their more local dealers on a trailer behind a Proper Range Rover with a 3.5 ton tow limit. The Police prosecuted due to the trailer/car combo weighing more than the tow car. Land Rovers defence was not only was the vehicle designed to tow 3.5 ton it was not a normal road car but a utilitarian vehicle designed with such use in mind....They lost.

We're going round in circles. Before 16 December 2021 that could have been illegal (depending on the driver). Now it's not.

What you could tow before 16 December 2021​

Licences issued before 1 January 1997​

You are not affected by the changes if you passed your car driving test before 1 January 1997.

You’re usually allowed to drive a vehicle and trailer combination up to 8,250kg maximum authorised mass (MAM). View your driving licence information to check.

You’re also allowed to drive a minibus with a trailer over 750kg MAM.

MAM is the limit on how much the vehicle can weigh when it’s loaded.

Licences issued from 1 January 1997 to 18 January 2013​

If you passed your car driving test from 1 January 1997 to 18 January 2013, you were allowed to drive either of the following:

• a car or van up to 3,500kg MAM towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM (up to 4,250kg in total)
• a trailer over 750kg MAM, as long as it is no more than the unladen weight of the towing vehicle (up to 3,500kg in total)

You’ve had to pass a car and trailer driving test if you want to tow anything heavier.

Towing with a car

Towing trailers, caravans and horseboxes with a car, including the weight and size limits, and what licence you need to have

www.gov.uk

 

[BTB 500]

It would be interesting to see such a vehicle that has a legally permitted towing weight greater than its GVW.

There's no requirement for a vehicle to be loaded to GVW in order to tow the specified maximum trailer weight though? Plenty of cars have a towing limit that's higher than their kerbweight.

 

[JHS]

There's no requirement for a vehicle to be loaded to GVW in order to tow the specified maximum trailer weight though? Plenty of cars have a towing limit that's higher than their kerbweight.

But nobody is saying that are they?

Really? Could you let me know which cars these are?

 

[BTB 500]

Except its not!!....Believe what you wish. Why would VOSA/Police stop and check these things if it was legal anyway. I'll leave it there

You mean DVSA I guess - VOSA ceased to exist 8 years ago. Their roadside stops for caravans focus on common & obvious safety issues like lights, tyres, breakaway cable, brakes but they will sometimes check noseweight and laden weight of the caravan as well.

 

[BTB 500]

Really? Could you let me know which cars these are?

Well, Range Rovers for one if this post is correct:

Land Rover used to deliver smaller Land Rovers to some of their more local dealers on a trailer behind a Proper Range Rover with a 3.5 ton tow limit. The Police prosecuted due to the trailer/car combo weighing more than the tow car.

In fact a quick Google pulls up a big list of ones that can tow 3.5 tonnes:

List of Cars that Can Tow Up To 3500kg (3.5 Tonne)

If you want to tow large trailers and heavier goods, you need a car that can pull 3.5t. Here is a list of cars with 3500kg towing capacity.

www.towingcapacity.co.uk

You can check the kerbweight of some of the more popular ones rated for over 1900 kg here:

2019 1900kg+ | Tow Car Awards

www.thetowcarawards.com

 

[Benzowner]

Even forgetting the legalities of it, towing something that weighs 3.5 ton behind a 2 ton vehicle is just stupid.....if it gets into a snake you simply wont have enough car weight to stop it. The dog needs to be controlling the tail rather than the other way around.

Tell that to all those who tow horse boxes, any 2 horse box will be up around 3.5 tonnes and usually towed behind daddies Range Rover

 

[Benzowner]

But nobody is saying that are they?

Really? Could you let me know which cars these are?

Mercedes G Wagen can tow 3500kg