US carmakers have been recieving grants for years

[Dieselman]

It would appear that US car giants have been receiving substantial grants for technology improvements for years from the US Government.

What have they done with the cars they have come up with.?

If I was US Congress I'd be asking serious questions as to where that money has gone, especially as there doesn't appear to have been any change in the vehicles produced.
What about THIS from Yr2000. I bet GM wish they had rushed something...anything..into production before the wheels came off the cart.

They could have had the whole US marketplace sewn up.

 

[nick mercedes]

They could have had the whole US marketplace sewn up.

Americans like pickups more than cars, and cupholders/wide seats more than fuel economy or style.

Witness the R-Class....

 

[bolide]

I bet GM wish they had rushed something...anything..into production before the wheels came o

That was a concept from January 2000. Assuming they'd spent 5 years getting it into a workable form they'd have launched a diesel-fuelled car in 2005

In early 2006 it was still impossible to register a diesel-fuelled car in New York or California. Only now are Mercedes launching diesel-powered cars that can be sold in California

So, theoretically, GM could have launched a car in 2005 that was ideal for early adopters & greens - but would not have been able to sell them in the key states where the buyers are

I think you can criticise the Big Three, and most of the criticism is valid, but for GM to launch a car it couldn't sell in California would have been commercial suicide

Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[W210 Fan]

DM, most engineering firms have recieved large grants for various things over the years, car manufactures are no exception, what normally happens is a designer comes up with a great idea that saves n (the unknown) MPG, then the fuel cartels buy the idea and shelf it to keep selling petrol, then claim years later they are doing everything they can to save the planet thus getting on the green planet bandwagon, apparently in the 70s both Ford and Fiat came up with carbon fibre/plastic based engine capable of a reputed 120MPG, the cartels purchased the idea as otto cycle engines at the time were capable of 20ish MPG of this size, thus keeping the ratio of supply and demand in their favour, this could be all myth as I hear you say as I am only 30 and I admit I have only read this in engineering books not seen it first hand, 10 years ago I met a man who worked on a plastic engine, 5 years ago he informed me that the working engine with n hundred thousand miles under its belt was purchased by somebody and was never seen again - co-incidence - you decide - anyway, back to the OP, chances are that the technology, amazing as it was, after it was researched and proven was shelved by a third party to make cash...

Anyway thats just my point based on my knowledge, DM, as much as I find you argumentative I also respect your knowledge so lets have a civilised chat...

 

[Dryce]

this could be all myth

There was work done in the 70s/80s on ceramic engines and plastics. I can recall magazine articles in the early eighties suggesting that in a few years we would have engines that didn't require lubrication and also proposing disposable engines (you replaced the whole engine as a cartridge at major service intervals).

Some of the work was done by large companies (eg. Ford). But there were also smaller private innovators involved.

I doubt that there was a conspiracy behind its failure to get to market.

 

[scumbag]

what I never get is the insistance that Oil Cartels will shelve an idea, they have just bought in favour of keeping thier money invested in a finite resource.

whatever the facts about how much oil is left, it will run out. So if they can buy an idea that allows them to reduce dependancy on oil at present, while a suitable synthetic alternative is developed, they win on both counts! Looking at it with scale of economics, how long would it take to actually reduce oil dependancy for the world? 100years? longer?

Aircraft being built between now and 2030 will require to use oil to move, they will have a life expectancy up to around 40years.

I have no idea what ships will need, but its probably in the same region if not longer.

all kinds of manufacturers require oil.

Cars are not even a tick on the tip of the iceberg in terms of oil consumption, so why would they buy up these ideas, that they can make money on, and shelve them to make money on the product they are already making money on?

Take a car engine that works on water alone as an example. It will require oil to make it, oil to ship it around the world, the road surface requires oil to make that, trucks, trains, sattelites, plastic in TV's etc. The list of products needing oil is pretty big. and just having a car engine alone, that runs of water, will not prevent oil usage.

And that is supposing they can replace all the worlds cars, with this engine tommorrow. which would turn into a frightening logistical nightmare!

I know diamond cartels buy diamonds to keep the price of diamonds up, but then they are not a scarce product. Oil cartels may control price and supply of oil, but as they know it will run out, I would guess they will be looking at making whatever it is that would be a replacement for thier product, thus staying in business after the end of oil. If they can bring it out now, it lengthens the time oil is available for all. so again a win win all round for them.

Oil companies have an interest in making things green, and reducing oil consumption. They are the areas that will keep them in business long after others have folded.

Well thats what Lady Diana told me on the phone last night, after she got back from Elvis's party. Told me JFK was not actually shot too. They buried him in the Moon landing stage they built in Arizona!!!!!!

 

[Mr E]

It's a cracking idea this conspiracy stuff, but as well as the good reasons Scumbag puts up, there are other reasons why this may be considered nonsense.

One only has to think of the licensing potential of any new technology breakthrough in this area. With the number of new vehicle sales in the world each year, even at a small percentage of take-up the return runs into hundreds of millions of dollars (at, say, fees in the region of $50 - $100 per vehicle). If the technology was any good and could be demonstrated to be cost effective, then the interest from investors outside of the oil business would be enormous.

Often when one looks at the technology behind these claims, they hold as much credence as those guys on the net who suggest you can run your car on water or fresh air.

 

[scumbag]

It's a cracking idea this conspiracy stuff, , there are other reasons why this may be considered nonsense.
.

like

I hope this works

 

[scumbag]

. I can recall magazine articles in the early eighties suggesting that in a few years we would have engines that didn't require lubrication .

I guess this stuff might be of use in this application. I always thought it was developed as a non oil based lubricant for rocket engines.


leads me back to one of my favourite questions of all time.

How the hell do you get it to stick to pans???

 

[Dieselman]

I think you can criticise the Big Three, and most of the criticism is valid, but for GM to launch a car it couldn't sell in California would have been commercial suicide

And where exactly are they now.?

If they were only going to develop it for sale in the US then they could have had a petrol version as well, but why limit sales to the US, it could've gone Global and been the best car of it's type in the World.

This car was about much more than a simple diesel hybrid, it was ground breaking in terms of aerodynamics and fuel efficiency.

Now they are in trouble in 2009 and haven't got anything close to production meanwhile Toyota and Honda, and others are taking sales.

 

[Howard]

Are we on that map ?

 

[del320]

My goodness! How automotive styling has moved on...

The V&A ran an exhibition back in April '06 called 'Modernism: designing a new world 1914 -1939', featuring bakelite and aluminium objects, including this 1938 Tatra T87.

plus ça change - and all that!


(BTW "I before E except after C")

 

[Dieselman]

The V&A ran an exhibition back in April '06 called 'Modernism: designing a new world 1914 -1939', featuring bakelite and aluminium objects, including this 1938 Tatra T87.

That's because Tatra were one of the very first manufacturers to design cars using wind tunnels.

Thanks Del..sorted now I did know that but missed it....

Here is an article on aerodynamic drag.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Breaking-the-Drag-Coefficient-Barrier&id=503539
Note the reference to manufacturers focusing on other things. Cup holders anyone..?

 

[DieselE]

Are we on that map ?

I wondered that but maybe as Scumbag lives and works in Scotland he thinks we aren't worth a mention.

 

[crockers]

Are we on that map ?

No - no American states are......

 

[scumbag]

I wondered that but maybe as Scumbag lives and works in Scotland he thinks we aren't worth a mention.

ah yes, Scotland. That would be part of England then? if you lice in the US anyway!

Most US of A'ers have an idea where the UK is, which is not too bad considering we invented the US.

Its the rest of the world that's on the map, minus the insignificant countries who don't need mentioning.

like China

good'ol yanks eh? anything for a laugh.