Using the hard shoulder during peak times

[Gucci]

Already in use in Birmingham for the last year, which has proved 'successful' in reducing congestion. Plans are for the M25 to use this idea, with the matrix signs indicating if the lane is to be used.

1. Emergency vehicles go where in an accident?
2. Breaking down/tyre repair would be dicey
3. I need a wee....

 

[television]

Already in use in Birmingham for the last year, which has proved 'successful' in reducing congestion. Plans are for the M25 to use this idea, with the matrix signs indicating if the lane is to be used.

1. Emergency vehicles go where in an accident?
2. Breaking down/tyre repair would be dicey
3. I need a wee....

Do you wee on the M5-6 from a bridge or where

 

[Gucci]

Do you wee on the M5-6 from a bridge or where

Can't say I've had the pleasure

 

[Colin_b]

1. They close the hard shoulder to traffic via overhead signs and enforcement cameras. Takes 20 secs, allegedly.

2. Either option 1, or 'breakdown pull off areas', which sound dodgy.

3.Same as now. Unless it was the hard shoulder.....

 

[KillerHERTZ]

On the M42 (around Bham) around every 400metres they have an emergency layby off the hardshoulder incase you should still breakdown.

Never looks like it makes any difference at all using the harshoulder to traffic flow when ever ive been on there.

 

[TonyVianoAmbiente]

On the M42 (around Bham) around every 400metres they have an emergency layby off the hardshoulder incase you should still breakdown.

Never looks like it makes any difference at all using the hard shoulder to traffic flow when ever ive been on there.

It might look like that to you, but the data shows an increase in capacity of over 20% when using 3 lanes + shoulder compared to 3 lanes.

That isn't as good as adding a fourth lane and keeping the hard shoulder, which adds about 30-35% to capacity, but that comes with an astronomic price tag. Making the hard shoulder into a rush hour lane still costs money, but it is a tiny fraction of the cost of full blown widening.

 

[BTB 500]

FWIW it seems rare to have a hard shoulder on motorways in Europe. Probably why a warning triangle is mandatory in so many countries!

 

[recycled]

well on all european motorways i have been on, here has been a hard shoulder.
holland,germany,belgium and france

 

[Rose Chap]

They could achieve much the same result merely be teaching and enforcing proper lane discipline.

Keep left unless overtaking should be as well publicised and enforced as speeding.

 

[Stratman]

On the M42, the hard shoulder is supposed to be used by vehicles leaving at the next exit, at least according to the overhead signs. What generally happens is that you get delivery vans and BMWs D ) racing along the hard shoulder and then cutting in at the last possible moment. A bit like what happens normally then.

 

[glojo]

We only use the M42 two or three times a year and I thought this idea was silly in so far as it varied from junction to junction, or even section to section. One minute you can use the hard shoulder but the next minute we saw a broken down car using this lane. Dieselman (where are you?? ) is a regular user of this route and likes it and this leads me to think that if we were to use this motorway more often we would quickly get used to it?

My own thoughts are in line with Rose Chap.... better lane discipline.

Keep left unless overtaking should be as well publicised and enforced as speeding.

Regards
John

 

[Palfrem]

I use the M42 a lot as I live in Solihull

Mostly when it's busy using the hard shoulder is OK (even allowing for vans and BMWs) the big drawback is the speed limit settings

It's supposed to be automatic and based on traffic flow, etc. but nowdays it hardly ever seems to be set at 70

On a relatively quiet Sunday where you have been happily bowling along at 70 (give or take!) as soon as you get to the controlled section the limit is 60 or maybe even 50. The hard should is rarely open these times open though!

I've been on there a few times and alternate signs are 50 60 50 60. Bearing in mind how close some of these gantries are and the fact that they have M25 type speed cameras installed, I seem to spend a lot of time looking at my speedo.

When the road is not busy this artificial limit causes bunching and I have a seen a few near misses at junctions when it has been difficult to move over as the traffic is travelling closer together and at roughly the same speed.

The other bit about this "experiment" that is odd is they have removed the countdown markers from some of the junctions. This means that at the last minute, when strangers realise the junction is upon them, there is a fair bit of last minute lane changing. I wrote to the DfT about this and they said it was done to avoid any confusion approaching the new refuges!? Hmm.

As to the worry of no hard shoulder for breakdowns - how often do we see cars there anyway? Modern cars are (mostly) very reliable and a breakdon is an infrequent occurrence.

Personally, the jury's out, but I'll bet the speed limits and cameras must be raising enough revenue to pay for the work.

Cheers
Mike

 

[TonyVianoAmbiente]

They could achieve much the same result merely be teaching and enforcing proper lane discipline.

Keep left unless overtaking should be as well publicised and enforced as speeding.

This sounds good in theory. Unfortunately, the truth is that everyone wants everyone else to keep left unless overtaking, but when it comes to doing it themselves, they still tend to hog the right hand lane. And yes, I include myself in that criticism.

Having driven extensively in mainland Europe, the Middle East and the USA (440,000 miles driving on the right so far) I think I like the US system best, with overtaking allowed on either side and all lanes more fully utilised as a result.

The Netherlands struck me as being about the best in Europe, with frequent reminders to keep right except when overtaking in the form of billboards alongside the motorway, with on-the-spot fines doled out by police patrols for those who hogged the middle or left lanes. Lane discipline was better than in the UK as a result, but what also helped was the greater respect given to the motorway speed limit.

I liked Germany least, with people hammering up the outside lane at unbelieveable speeds, appearing just off your back bumper with lights flashing and horns blaring when they weren't even visible when I last looked in my mirror. No wonder Germany's autobahn accident rate is so high.

 

[crockers]

I've been on there a few times and alternate signs are 50 60 50 60. Bearing in mind how close some of these gantries are and the fact that they have M25 type speed cameras installed, I seem to spend a lot of time looking at my speedo.

Mike

Thank goodness for speedtronic.............. should be mandatory on all cars....:bannana: I think only Renault have a similar system...

 

[SEM]

The M42 has suffered because of the Toll Road, Any traffic coming from Nottingham would come to a halt as the toll joins it heading toward the M40. The traffic has always been bad as 3 or 4 trunk roads like the A45 from Cov joins by the NEC. It was a case of having to widen the road and the only way did this was to open up the hard shoulder. Bad planning had a get out clause!
As for the new flow system... IMO has made no difference. I now use back roads and country lanes to avoid the M42 Jams. Comand gets me home quicker on the short route setting

 

[DieselE]

I use the M42 a lot as I live in Solihull

Mostly when it's busy using the hard shoulder is OK (even allowing for vans and BMWs) the big drawback is the speed limit settings

It's supposed to be automatic and based on traffic flow, etc. but nowdays it hardly ever seems to be set at 70

On a relatively quiet Sunday where you have been happily bowling along at 70 (give or take!) as soon as you get to the controlled section the limit is 60 or maybe even 50. The hard should is rarely open these times open though!

I've been on there a few times and alternate signs are 50 60 50 60. Bearing in mind how close some of these gantries are and the fact that they have M25 type speed cameras installed, I seem to spend a lot of time looking at my speedo.

When the road is not busy this artificial limit causes bunching and I have a seen a few near misses at junctions when it has been difficult to move over as the traffic is travelling closer together and at roughly the same speed.

The other bit about this "experiment" that is odd is they have removed the countdown markers from some of the junctions. This means that at the last minute, when strangers realise the junction is upon them, there is a fair bit of last minute lane changing. I wrote to the DfT about this and they said it was done to avoid any confusion approaching the new refuges!? Hmm.

As to the worry of no hard shoulder for breakdowns - how often do we see cars there anyway? Modern cars are (mostly) very reliable and a breakdon is an infrequent occurrence.

Personally, the jury's out, but I'll bet the speed limits and cameras must be raising enough revenue to pay for the work.

Cheers
Mike

When the hard shoulder is open, the speed limit signs are set at 50.

Personally, the jury's out, but I'll bet the speed limits and cameras must be raising enough revenue to pay for the work.

So far, I've not met anyone who has been booked on the controlled section. Neither have I read of any cases in the local papers. Amazingly though, most people obey the signs and also stick close to 70 when the signs are not lit.

BTW I arrived back today from a holiday in the USA. On the I-95 in the Boston area they allow driving in the "breakdown" lane at peak times. As there is no roadway lighting, it can be quite interesting in the dark driving in the inside lane with people passing you on what is a fairly narrow breakdown lane. It's even worse when your hire car is a nearly invisible Chevrolet Malibu and it seems as if everyone else is in full size SUVs.

 

[KillerHERTZ]

Amazingly though, most people obey the signs and also stick close to 70 when the signs are not lit.

Thats down to the fact that each of the sigh bridges have camera's on them. Go over 70Mph and risk a ticket.

Terrible road if you ask me, You spend more time looking at your speedo that the road in front.

 

[c240yaz]

You should try the M8 Kingston Bridge and approaches in Glasgow. Sometimes it can be worse than the M1, M6 and M25 at peak times.

 

[DieselE]

Thats down to the fact that each of the sigh bridges have camera's on them. Go over 70Mph and risk a ticket.

Terrible road if you ask me, You spend more time looking at your speedo that the road in front.

Not all of the gantries have cameras, though they all have the "Gatso Bars" painted on the road. Most regular users of the road have worked out how to recognise the camera fitted gantries.

Whilst the system seems to keep traffic moving even when the road is heavily congested it does have its down side. Many drivers seem to think that when the variable speed limit signs are on they no longer have to leave a safe distance between them and the car in front. 60mph convoys with 12-15 foot gaps between vehicles are an all too regular occurrance.

 

[hawk20]

Thank goodness for speedtronic.............. should be mandatory on all cars....:bannana: I think only Renault have a similar system...

I prefer cruise but either saves you looking at the speedo all the time. The joy of the Merc system is that you can dab it on and dab it off just at the flick of a stalk, without touching the brakes if the traffic slows up. I use it in virtually every speed limited area.