W124 0m606 flywheel sensor

[carat 3.6]

Hi guy's, I have been thinking of converting my s124 to a manual gearbox. I have most of the part's laying about, however I have been told that the om606 in my car has a flywheel sensor.

As the car runs a mechanical injection pump, I am curious as to why it needs to know the position of the crankshaft?

I ask because I will need to change the flywheel, and was hoping to use one for an m103 that will not have the correct pickup points for the sensor. The car dosent have a limp home mode, so what will happen if I disconect the sensor?

 

[bolide]

I suspect the CPS is used to drive the tacho and idle speed stabilisation ECU and maybe the cruise control

Nick Froome

 

[carat 3.6]

I suspect the CPS is used to drive the tacho and idle speed stabilisation ECU and maybe the cruise control

Nick Froome

Ok, that complicates things a little. I dont want to upset the idle control, and since the om606 manual flywheels are daulmass I will have to transfer the pickup points on to another flywheel.

I'll keep you all posted when I find the answer to that problem.

 

[bolide]

Have a look at the wiring diagrams. That'll get you accurate information

I wonder if the flywheels are balanced separately to the cranks & pistons?

Nick Froome

 

[Druk]

I have three flywheels/TC plates on the bench here. The dual mass from a 93 320TE petrol manual has three trigger points. The TC mounting plate from a 606-962 turbo engine has six trigger points; but oddly, the TC mounting plate from a 606-910 24vdiesel (ex TrapperJohn's car) has no trigger points although there is a pick-up on the engine housing. Maybe it 'sees' the flywheel teeth?
There is the possibility of making a toothed wheel for the crankshaft front pulley and mounting the pick-up on a bracket which is the way I'm maybe going. I'm looking into mounting a manual box to a 962 turbo engine but using a single mass flywheel and clutch from a Sprinter.

 

[carat 3.6]

Have a look at the wiring diagrams. That'll get you accurate information

I wonder if the flywheels are balanced separately to the cranks & pistons?

Nick Froome

I've only got the wiring diagrams in the haynes manual for the w124, which helpfully dose not cover the 606. The flywheels are balanced seperately on the om606, I think it was some of the older engines like the m116 v8 where it was balanced as one unit.

I have three flywheels/TC plates on the bench here. The dual mass from a 93 320TE petrol manual has three trigger points. The TC mounting plate from a 606-962 turbo engine has six trigger points; but oddly, the TC mounting plate from a 606-910 24vdiesel (ex TrapperJohn's car) has no trigger points although there is a pick-up on the engine housing. Maybe it 'sees' the flywheel teeth?
There is the possibility of making a toothed wheel for the crankshaft front pulley and mounting the pick-up on a bracket which is the way I'm maybe going. I'm looking into mounting a manual box to a 962 turbo engine but using a single mass flywheel and clutch from a Sprinter.

Sounds an intresting project your building, what car are you going to fit it to? Also, do you have any pics of the flywheels you have?

 

[bolide]

Flywheel teeth would not tell you where you were in a rotation

Nick Froome

 

[Druk]

Flywheel teeth would not tell you where you were in a rotation. Nick Froome

I also wondered that Nick. But nonetheless there are no visible notches or lugs.

 

[Druk]

Sounds an intresting project your building, what car are you going to fit it to? Also, do you have any pics of the flywheels you have?

It's going into an R107 with a bit of luck. Do you want a pic of the 320 dual mass flywheel? I've been hearing from one local guy who has had one welded up to make a single mass and used a heavy duty clutch plate from an early Sprinter which has 8 shock springs in the plate. The trick is to mount the thing in a lathe and true up the dual mass center to the drive face then weld up the two masses.

 

[carat 3.6]

It's going into an R107 with a bit of luck. Do you want a pic of the 320 dual mass flywheel? I've been hearing from one local guy who has had one welded up to make a single mass and used a heavy duty clutch plate from an early Sprinter which has 8 shock springs in the plate. The trick is to mount the thing in a lathe and true up the dual mass center to the drive face then weld up the two masses.

A 107? that would make it the perfect usable classic.

I've heard about people welding up the daul mass flywheels, but I was never convinced it is the best solution. The sprinter clutch plate sounds like a good idea though, mines non turbo so I'm going to use a m103 clutch thats laying about.

I'd be intrested to see a pic of the 606 flywheels, just so I can work out what the sensor is looking at on my car.

 

[Druk]

Trial fitting going well.

I'll pic the flywheels tomorrow maybe.


.

 

[carat 3.6]

Now I'm jealous. Love the color too, those seats look like an intresting mod?

 

[Number_Cruncher]

Flywheel teeth would not tell you where you were in a rotation

Nick Froome

No, but, the EGR, the idle speed control, and perhaps resonance flaps in the inlet manifol don't need crankshaft position to be sensed, only crankshaft speed - counting flywheel teeth can provide this.

 

[carat 3.6]

No, but, the EGR, the idle speed control, and perhaps resonance flaps in the inlet manifol don't need crankshaft position to be sensed, only crankshaft speed - counting flywheel teeth can provide this.

If it dose just count the teeth on the flywheel, that would make things very easy for me. Just make sure the flywheel I use has the same number of teeth, or swap the ring gear over.

 

[Number_Cruncher]

In document 07.1-2005, for the OM606-910 engine, the sensor (L3) is described as "starter ring gear speed sensor".

If you do need to swap ring gears, you may also need to swap the starter motor pinion too.

 

[Druk]

Purely in the cause of advancement in science and after battling through 80mph winds to get them (anyone smell anything?) here are the flywheel pics.

The TC mounting plate from a 606-962 turbo engine. 6 little lugs visible for the CPS to work on. This engine does need them though cos of the electronic IP.

The TC mounting plate from a 606-910 non-turbo engine. No visible lugs but a much heavier design then #1. Possibly #1 has been lightened by Merc to aid engine acceleration?

The dual-mass flywheel from a 320 HFM petrol engine. Three long segments to serve the CPS.

All three have the same diameter ring-gear with 144 teeth each and the same crankshaft PCD of 8 bolts. :bannana:

 

[Dieselman]

Flywheel teeth would not tell you where you were in a rotation

Nick Froome

Why does it need to know where the engine is in rotation?

 

[Dieselman]

This engine does need them though cos of the electronic IP.

It's not an electronic injection pump, it's a mechanical pump with electronic control for fuel rack position and maximum governed speed.
The injection timing is mechanical and as such the ECU only needs to know the engine speed, not the position.

 

[Druk]

It's not an electronic injection pump, it's a mechanical pump with electronic control for fuel rack position and maximum governed speed.
The injection timing is mechanical and as such the ECU only needs to know the engine speed, not the position.[/QUOTE]

And how else would the ECU 'know' the engine speed? I apologise for not being descriptively perfect.

 

[Alex Crow]

It's not an electronic injection pump, it's a mechanical pump with electronic control for fuel rack position and maximum governed speed.
The injection timing is mechanical and as such the ECU only needs to know the engine speed, not the position.[/QUOTE]

And how else would the ECU 'know' the engine speed? I apologise for not being descriptively perfect.

He is just proving the already proven point about it NOT needing to know crank position, just crank speed.