Why don't we get 4Matic?

[alfl23]

As a proud owner of an S63 Coupé, I have a die hard level of love for our friends over at Daimler, but the more I drive it the more I think they love us a bit less. I was hoping someone more knowledgeable could shed some light, doesn't sound like steering on the right side would have anything to do at all with the drive train, but what do I know. Especially since it's now in the E63S 4Matic available in the UK.

As much as I love my merc, it's properly scared me a number of occasions, the backend going into full skid very very easily, especially on a wet or even nearly dry road.

It's more frightening how easily it happens, when you're already at 40mph and trying to apply some gas(1/3rd of a pedal) in a straight line. I'm no Hamilton and the car is great at correcting itself, but I got extremely lucky each time, as I had no cars left and right, but if I did I would've hit them 100%.

Wondering what your experience in a rear wheel drive AMG has been, they all have insane torque.(Any tips on improving grip super welcome).

 

[KillerHERTZ]

In the past the excuse has always been that its not possible to convert to RHD due to space in the engine bay/steering rack, same reason we didnt get the original GLK.

Other factors are will it actually sell, how big the market is.

With a Rear wheel drive AMG, basically down put alot of power down until your steering straight and its dry. You soon get used to the Dash flashing / helping you out

 

[Jim W]

'Something to do with enough legroom in the R/H footwell. It seems the drive for the front diff comes from the right side of the trans. I have a new E63s 4Matic, the front end makes horrendous noises and clunks on lock at idle speed. This may be due to the 4WD being different on RHD models for that reason? My car is going back to the dealer next week to check it out.

 

[chrisk2010]

I was just talking to someone in my office yesterday about this as she and her husband are looking for a new car and they were looking at a new Merc but the ONE thing that she won't live without is 4WD as in her words "it's just safer".
I can't totally understand where she is coming from as my little C230 V6 nearly put me into another car just turning into Tesco the other day. I wasn't speeding it was from stationary i applied some gas turned right (with hindsight maybe harder than i should have) the back end kicked out like i was on an oil slick and i drifted into the turning quickly corrected feathered the throttle and regained control with only my pride dented.
I looked on may way out of the car park and in my cars defence the tarmac was new and extreamly slick but non the less i'll be paying more attention and gingerish with the throttle.

 

[R1NGA]

'Something to do with enough legroom in the R/H footwell. It seems the drive for the front diff comes from the right side of the trans."

I think that's exactly it. The new platform architecture underpinning the current E63 4MATIC+ DOES make space for both steering and drive-shaft, but the S-Class is different and in the new 4-litre bi-turbo version, there simply isn't enough space for a RHD 4MATIC unfortunately.

 

[alfl23]

I think marketwise UK is more than reasonably accommodating considering they sell a ton of cars anyway. By virtue of capitalism, I think if they put more stuff on the highest performance/price models, clientele would definitely exist, if not for profit, then for bullet proofing the 4WD on RHD.

My 2p, there's a plethora of people out there who would value the safety and convenience of a 4 wheel drive in any merc, maybe I'm off the mark, but there's enough rain and wet weather to make this a must.

They are clearly trying to fix this, with the E63S, which is amazing, and for a super niche product. It would be really cool if C63S, GLS63 etc would get 4Matic versions and then they could trickle it down to everywhere properly.

"Enough legroom in the R/H footwell" may be a very real problem, but how many engineers does it take to create enough legroom in the R/H footwell? I personally find it absolutely ridiculous they couldn't work this out, but then again not even their UK website works anymore.

E63S 4Matic is a great step forward, so hopefully, I can put a 4Matic S63 on my 2018 resolution. Daimler if you're reading this I have the napkin and pen ready.

 

[talltrees]

Just bought a C43 Coupe 4 matic. Never even considered anything with nearly 400bhp without all wheel drive.
So far I have not been able to break traction at all, it just grips and goes, wet or dry it is completely stable and neutral.

A great B road car in all weather and then in Comfort mode a great motorway cruiser getting 33 plus MPG!
I only got 38mpg out of the 220d GLC coming back from Scotland with a head wind yesterday.

The crabbing is not apparent on the C43 yet but the GLC had the cross climate tyres fitted last year which cured it through the summer but its back again with the cold weather.
It is not too bad and I can live with it, the Michelin cross climates are wearing slowly and evenly. They have done 18,000 miles now and still look new!

 

[daveenty]

I have a new E63s 4Matic, the front end makes horrendous noises and clunks on lock at idle speed. This may be due to the 4WD being different on RHD models for that reason? My car is going back to the dealer next week to check it out.

Mine does similar though I just treat it as a "characteristic" and try to avoid full lock as I know the dealer won't do anything about it.

As for the OP, my last AMG was quite modified, with a lot of horsepower and torque, though a limited slip differential and decent tyres helped it substantially.

 

[Jim W]

Mine does similar though I just treat it as a "characteristic" and try to avoid full lock as I know the dealer won't do anything about it.

It's not good though is it? Even passengers say to me - what is that noise?
I don't believe other 4WD cars make such a fuss. Audi certainly don't.
I will keep an eye on it come time for the warranty to run out.

 

[JDL60]

It’s what makes Mercs and especially AMGs interesting though isn’t it?
This 4matic is a new one of course and i ‘only’ have the 212, but I’ve got the low speed/cold surge thing- like Dave I put it down to a model characteristic...or as I call it ‘personality’....if I wanted dull I’d get another Audi (one of which I got rid of recently as it bored me to tears)

 

[Jim W]

It’s a bit off if MB call it a model characteristic.
It makes a hell of a din sometimes and you feel it too. ‘Not something you’d expect from an expensive car.

 

[alfl23]

It's obvious Mercedes has completely shifted focused from introducing new things on the flagship models to wider market appeal models. C has car play, S class doesn't, C Class has 4Matic, S doesn't, and the list goes on and on and on. I don't think this would've been the case 5 years ago, they always used the S class to pioneer new things, now the S is dragging massively behind in many small ways.

You get far more car for your money going A class than going E or S these days. I jokingly asked a dealer when the S will be getting all the C class features, he replied very honestly "I don't know". The years apart(S Coupe 2015) and C Coupe(2017) have some part in it, but not even the 2017 S Coupé facelift is coming with CarPlay. They just added useless things, like 30 more horsepower, as if after the first 600 anyone needed more bragging rights, as well as a C class grill.

As Jim W points out, it's a fair bit of change to pay for something that's further apart from "the bar". Be them as they may "1st world problems", at this rate in 5 - 7 years time we'll all have fond memories of what AMGs used to be, as they are becoming such a volume business.

 

[kid-jensen]

If it DIDN'T go sideways when you mashed it, most AMG buyers would throwing their cars back at the dealers!
You really can't please everyone.

As John Surtees said "the throttle goes both ways", and he should know.

On a more helpful level, do you have a LSD? If not, maybe that's the solution? You'd have to be a lot more brutal with the accelerator to break the rear end with a LSD fitted..

 

[c_200k]

If it DIDN'T go sideways when you mashed it, most AMG buyers would throwing their cars back at the dealers!
You really can't please everyone.

As John Surtees said "the throttle goes both ways", and he should know.

On a more helpful level, do you have a LSD? If not, maybe that's the solution? You'd have to be a lot more brutal with the accelerator to break the rear end with a LSD fitted..

I agree here, an LSD makes a massive difference. Saying that my C63 has an LSD and it breaks traction left right and centre that's with conti sport 5p's, the power delivery is just brutal especially in S and S+

I fuking love it though

 

[Jim W]

Of course, with an LSD you’re more likely to go sideways when you light ‘em up with a lot of power. Loads of fun when you’ve got it controlled.

 

[Riverside Red]

Always loved rear wheel drive cars, as has been said previously the throttle goes both ways.....I rarely spin the wheels (except when I want to), I always find a smooth driving style helps with the best tyres and always changing them at 3/4 mm.

On the C63 I had Michelin MPSS fitted and they are great tyres, once the winters come off (another way to improve winter traction) I'll be going for Michelin P4S as they are supposed to be even better than the MPSS that were fitted new. I definitely think the Michelin tyres give better grip than the Contisport 5P's.

Really disappointed that the new CLS is 4wd only, I think Mercedes are just going down the Audi route with everything styling, mechanicals and the lot......

RR

 

[Deleted member 37751]

RWD will always be better to drive than AWD and I hope Mercedes hold off for as long as possible with this blind “AWD is safer” schtick.

Like the man says - the throttle goes both ways...

 

[Aamir]

RWD will always be better to drive than AWD and I hope Mercedes hold off for as long as possible with this blind “AWD is safer” schtick.

Like the man says - the throttle goes both ways...

It's not about safer. It's about being more effective. Take the case of my E63. What's the point of 612hp if you can only put 400-500 to the ground effectively? It's such a waste. 4wd is a gamechanger in putting the power down. So much so that the E63S is actually the fastest accelerating Mercedes to 60, you can buy right now. That includes the AMG GT-R. It even beats out an SLS Black Series to 60. That's just silly for a 2-tonne luxury executive sedan.

 

[JBD]

The reason that this is still an issue in the S Class is the same issue as with previous models. The S Class is still built on an older platform, not like the MRA platform of the E Class. That platform can’t accommodate 4Matic for RHD. It’s not down to demand at all, it’ll be 4Matic in the next generation


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Riverside Red]

Take the case of my E63. What's the point of 612hp

You said it, what's the point of 612hp, I question where I can even use my mere 476hp on the road safely with or without 4wd. I'm seriously wondering where the "arms race" will take us but I certainly don't want the nanny state of everything being 4wd, turbocharged, with electric power steering, automatic, and 57 safety systems to take all enjoyment out of driving.

By the way after my experience in a Lotus Elise S for 18 months, Colin Chapman was still right when he designed lightweight cars. I'll take a wager with you now that a Lotus Exige 430 Club with nearly 200hp less than the E63S would muller it on a racing track. In 4wd or stupid 2wd drift mode..........

Fastest acceleration is one thing, but we don't live in "Trumpton" or "Merkelsville" we live in the good old UK with lots of corners with 60mph limits on country roads, a light involving car with rwd will always be more enjoyable for a B road blast on a Sunday morning.

RR