2.3 Cosworth Rust

[christiandk]

Hi chaps,

I am looking at a Cossie in Holland. The car has some rust and has also has some rust repairs. I have some pictures, but I am in doubt of how bad it could be.

I have received some feedback from our Amerian friends, but it seems that they are more hysterical about the brown stuff than we are.

Any feedback is highly appreciated.

Cheers from Copenhagen,

Christian

Opinion on 2.3-16 - Pictures - Page 4 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

 

[John Jones Jr]

Judging by those photo's you've little to concerned about, a lot of that looks superficial. If that's all, you've got a a very good car body wise.

Where you should concentrate on are around the front & rear windscreens, the rear parcel shelf (look up from within boot), the very bottom of the doors, especially rear doors (you'll need to get on the ground to check), all jacking points, sills, boot floor, front inner wings and behind the wheel arch extensions. Remove both rear seat sections and the parcel shelf, that will allow you to check the condition of the rear floor and the parcel shelf panel too.


P.s. It's not a Cosworth, it's a 190E 2.3-16

 

[christiandk]

Thanks a lot JJJ.

Did you take a look at the wheelarches from inside the trunk. There has been made a repair to both sides, and the americans dont think that it looks too good. What is your opinion?

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w201-190-class/2096962-opinion-2-3-16-pictures.html
Thanks,


Christian

P.S. I always call it 2.3-16, but I thought that you Brits called it Cossie!?

 

[Charles Morgan]

What Mr Jones Jr said about the other stuff to look at.

Some like to call them Cosworths, others not. It is sublimely unimportant.

 

[John Jones Jr]

Thanks a lot JJJ.

Did you take a look at the wheelarches from inside the trunk. There has been made a repair to both sides, and the americans dont think that it looks too good. What is your opinion?

Opinion on 2.3-16 - Pictures - Mercedes-Benz Forum
Thanks,


Christian

P.S. I always call it 2.3-16, but I thought that you Brits called it Cossie!?

Difficult to tell from the photos in all honesty. I'm not surprised there's been repairs but I wouldn't be too concerned about that, I'd imagine there's very few North European 16V's that haven't had some rust repairs at one time or another. If the car is not being sold as perfect and the price reflects that and you are overall happy with it, buy it! If it's an average to good 16V, just allow for some repairs sooner or later.

 

[John Jones Jr]

Some like to call them Cosworths, others not. It is sublimely unimportant.

Just as easy to call a car by it's correct name imo and in the process avoid any confusion with Sierra Cosworth.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Just as easy to call a car by it's correct name imo and in the process avoid any confusion with Sierra Cosworth.

If you mention the 190e 2.3-16v to someone who's into their cars, even they will be a bit puzzled until you say "the Cosworth 190e".

And let's be honest, half of the cars value nowadays is because they're known as a "Cosworth".

 

[John Jones Jr]

If you mention the 190e 2.3-16v to someone who's into their cars, even they will be a bit puzzled until you say "the Cosworth 190e".

And let's be honest, half of the cars value nowadays is because they're known as a "Cosworth".

Somebody that's into there cars will know exactly what your talking about once '16' is mentioned. Those that think they are into cars, usually need Cosworth to be mentioned...which is a bit odd considering there's never been a Merc Cosworth.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Somebody that's into there cars will know exactly what your talking about once '16' is mentioned. Those that think they are into cars, usually need Cosworth to be mentioned...which is a bit odd considering there's never been a Merc Cosworth.

Like I said earlier, that car wouldn't have half the prestige it does if Cosworth weren't involved which obviously upsets you but I frankly don't care either way just like most!

Why does it wind you up so much, did you work on the development of the 2.3-16v and you're sick of Cosworth getting all the plaudits for their input?

 

[Deleted member 37751]

I am looking at a Cossie in Holland. The car has some rust and has also has some rust repairs. I have some pictures, but I am in doubt of how bad it could be.

I have received some feedback from our Amerian friends, but it seems that they are more hysterical about the brown stuff than we are.

Even with close up photos in can be hard to really see rust, but as with any Mercedes of that age, go in with your eyes open and hope for the best but expect the worse!

Good luck, the 190e Cosworth is a great car.

 

[John Jones Jr]

Like I said earlier, that car wouldn't have half the prestige it does if Cosworth weren't involved which obviously upsets you but I frankly don't care either way just like most!

Why does it wind you up so much, did you work on the development of the 2.3-16v and you're sick of Cosworth getting all the plaudits for their input?

Just read post #6, that answers all your questions! As you'll see there's no upset there or being sick either!

 

[Will]

Mercedes built the car, Cosworth were commissioned to design and build the engine/cylinder heads. But the engine and it's character is what differentiates these cars from the other 190Es. It's unique and is different to any other engine/drivetrain combination sold by Mercedes before or since

I don't see what the problem is with calling them by their widely-accepted name? People have known them as '190 Cosworths' or ' Merc/Mercedes Cosworths' for years. I wouldn't go out of my way to call it such but accept that most others do. The majority are correct in this instance.

No-one is going to confuse a Mercedes with a Ford and Cosworth have existed before and after the Sierra was around. I think Subaru sell a Cosworth model nowadays and people who are 'into' cars will know that Cosworth have designed engines for many other manufacturers/cars anyway (Vauxhall springs to mind).

 

[John Jones Jr]

No-one is going to confuse a Mercedes with a Ford and Cosworth have existed before and after the Sierra was around.

The 80's Cosworth as in road car was the Sierra Cosworth, not the 190E 16v. That's all I was saying. If somebody says to me thy have an 80's, Cosworth they will be talking about a Sierra 9 times out of 10, not a 190. Then again maybe it's just me but I doubt it, that knows more people that had or own Sierra Cosworths than 190E 16V's.

 

[Dee-124CAB]

The 80's Cosworth as in road car was the Sierra Cosworth, not the 190E 16v. If somebody says to me thy have an 80's, Cosworth they will be talking about a Sierra 9 times out of 10, not a 190.

A 190E 2.3-16 and 2.5-16 is just as much part of the 80's as a Ford Sierra imo....

 

[Charles Morgan]

I know it's Wikipedia and therefore stuffed with errors, but it is fascinating to learn that Cosworth are second only to Ferrari in F1 wins with their engines. Part, once again, of the astonishing contribution Britain has made to car racing. You can see why MB turned to them for the engine work, MB at the time having no real race car experience in house. It is a phenomenal engine.

A friend has owned three V12 Ferraris and a Sierra Cosworth from new. He rates the latter as the much better car (turbo lag notwithstanding).

 

[Will]

The 80's Cosworth as in road car was the Sierra Cosworth, not the 190E 16v. That's all I was saying. If somebody says to me thy have an 80's, Cosworth they will be talking about a Sierra 9 times out of 10, not a 190. Then again maybe it's just me but I doubt it, that knows more people that had or own Sierra Cosworths than 190E 16V's.

Yeah, but you could go further here.

'80s Cosworth road car' - Ford? Which one? 'The original' 3-door or the Sapphire Cosworth (2wd or 4wd?). Etc.

And not much later you have the Escort Cosworth. I'm sure the non-RS Scorpios etc were available with Cosworth engines (24v V6) too.

Cosworth are a company and not a model, used in conjunction with a model you know what car people are on about. 'Cosworth' doesn't tell anyone it's from the 80s and even then if you say 'Ford Cosworth' it doesn't tell anyone if its a 3-door Sierra or Sapphire Cosworth, or even a later Escort Cosworth.

I think Ford folk tend to refer to most of the performance models under the umbrella of 'RS' models of which some are 'Cosworths'.

Cosworth - one company, many cars.

 

[grober]

Thanks a lot JJJ.

Did you take a look at the wheelarches from inside the trunk. There has been made a repair to both sides, and the americans dont think that it looks too good. What is your opinion?

Opinion on 2.3-16 - Pictures - Mercedes-Benz Forum
Thanks,


Christian

P.S. I always call it 2.3-16, but I thought that you Brits called it Cossie!?

Think they are probably right on that one. A high impact on the rear has sprung the seals. There is also a difference in colour [blueish tinge instead of grey] where its been sprayed over. The rear chassis legs look OK. though. Quite often the best approach for relatively minor body damage is to put the car on a jig and pull it out rather than disturb factory welds - the downside is that seams can spring allowing water ingress which does seem to be starting in the picture ? This is not an unmolested bodied car its a "well repaired" bodied car depends on your attitude to that and the price being asked.

 

[John Jones Jr]

deleted.

 

[Mrhanky]

I agree when a person says cossie or cosworth I think Ford straight away. I would never think of the 190 at all.

The ford chaps tend to refer to RS models as either the old Escort / Fiesta or the newer Focus based RS models.

If the refer to the Sierra or escort its always by the name cosworth.

Not that it really matters

 

[christiandk]

Thanks a lot guys. Primarily to you not talking about the Cossie vs 16 v issue

I really dont know what to do. I have a perfect 230CE coupe that it would replace and a 912E summer driver.

I guess that now I have confirmation that it has had not so great repairs

https://diensten.vwe.nl/publiek/die...enz 190-serie 190E 2.3-16 - Benzine - 10-1986

Cheers,

Christian