4matic models in the UK poll

[grober]

Thought this time of year would be best to ask this question. How many potential purchasers are there out there for the new ETS 4Matic four wheel drive system in the C and E class saloons and estates in the UK. Its available with the new diesel engines on the continent now in LHD. I have posted a couple of extra pictures to illustrate 1.how little the additional transmission intrudes into the interior space and 2. the engineering elegance of the system. got these both on google images by the way.

 

[BTB 500]

I'm sure cost is the key. E.g. when I got my VW Sharan in 2002, 4Motion added £2,000 to the OTR price. You've got to be pretty sure of the benefits (bearing in mind how good modern traction control / stability systems are) to pay that sort of money. If it was £200 then I expect 90% of people would have it (the other 10% probably worrying about extra servicing costs etc.).

 

[fuzzer]

I would deffo buy a 4 wheel drive saloon C class.

 

[prprandall51]

Not sure about the footwell intrusion - looks pretty significant on the S Class pic to me.

I would definitely check it out. £2K is a lot, though.

Philip

 

[Shude]

Not sure about the footwell intrusion - looks pretty significant on the S Class pic to me.

I would definitely check it out. £2K is a lot, though.

£2k isn't a lot, it's about the same price as COMAND, or leather interior!

 

[jaymanek]

ive only ever had a real problem once with RWD... it was over 7 yrs ago in my 123... the car spun in the snow, but that was mostly down to me not adjusting my driving style enough...
I dont see a need for general use in this country... If i want a 4WD, ill buy a g-wagen!

 

[Birdman]

I would, if it were not that the independent MB-trained specialists I spoke to advised me to steer well clear. (The E55 has more power than it knows what to do with at times so I thought 4Matic might be a sensible option.)

They also commented that the clutches wore out quickly, the design was unreliable, parts were hard to get, and the system was expensive and complicated to maintain.

I'm disappointed, but would say 'yes' if only the system were as cheap and reliable as Audi's.

 

[Apial]

Lots of 4wds are bought because the owner NEEDs to tow a horse trailer with a weight of say 2 tonnes, across boggy fields. The enhanced winter traction is just a coincidental bonus. The trouble with some 4wd non-off-roaders is that they have poor ground clearance and non-aggressive tyres that will still spin a wheel at the slightest puddle and leave the whole combination stuck due to no diff lock.

Give me a 4wd system that will let me pull 2 tonnes over muddy rutted terrain, then I'm interested.

A 4wd Sharan might do if it had a centre diff lock and I changed the tyres, but what is its max towing weight?

 

[prprandall51]

They also commented that the clutches wore out quickly, the design was unreliable, parts were hard to get, and the system was expensive and complicated to maintain.

So, apart from the poor clutch life, the unreliability, the scarcity of parts, the high cost to purchase and the complexity of maintaining it, is it a good system?

 

[grober]

I would, if it were not that the independent MB-trained specialists I spoke to advised me to steer well clear. (The E55 has more power than it knows what to do with at times so I thought 4Matic might be a sensible option.)

They also commented that the clutches wore out quickly, the design was unreliable, parts were hard to get, and the system was expensive and complicated to maintain.

I'm disappointed, but would say 'yes' if only the system were as cheap and reliable as Audi's.

As your specialist informed you the OLD 4matic system on the w124 series which was imported to the UK in rhd form was indeed unreliable and expensive . The NEWER DESIGN ETS based system is an open differential system and has NO clutches to wear out. Its virtually the same system as used on the ML and that system (apart from an appetite for Brake Pads) is normally trouble free as far as I know. It would be a pity if you decided against the new 4matic system due to out of date information.

 

[fuzzer]

4wd has to be better in the winter time , as mentioned in the tyre thread , slightest blip of the accelerator sends the traction control light flashing and thats with new michelin rubber on the rear

 

[grober]

Lots of 4wds are bought because the owner NEEDs to tow a horse trailer with a weight of say 2 tonnes, across boggy fields. The enhanced winter traction is just a coincidental bonus. The trouble with some 4wd non-off-roaders is that they have poor ground clearance and non-aggressive tyres that will still spin a wheel at the slightest puddle and leave the whole combination stuck due to no diff lock. Give me a 4wd system that will let me pull 2 tonnes over muddy rutted terrain, then I'm interested.

I totally agree with you. If you want to tow a 2 ton horse box across boggy fields buy a 4X4 with a ladder chassis. And when you buy it throw away the standard tyres the majority come with cos they wont cut it in the rough either. I still have a picture in my mind of a Toyota Landcruiser towing a horse box with every diff lock under the sun slowly digging itself into a muddy field on road tyres. If on the other hand your not into towing horse boxes off road and appreciate the better handling characteristics and economy of a 4x4 saloon then maybe the 4matic makes more sense?

 

[bolide]

4Matic

I would think that most of the old 4Matics are still pounding the motorways in the UK and Germany, albeit in 2WD. The old 4Matic system was clever for its day but I'm sure Mercedes haven't pulled out the old drawings but have started from scratch. The thing I liked most in the old system was the driveshaft that passed through a front spring. The spring was made with one hugely stretched coil and the driveshaft went through the gap!

You've got to ask why Mercedes would go to the trouble of designing it. Very obviously there's enough of a market to justify the expense and there's enough of a performance advantage to offer it alongside traction control. I imagine the snowier parts of North America and Europe are the target markets but of course Russia and China are prime candidates too

If I could afford a new E Class estate and needed to tow a horse box I'd specify it. Preferably with the V8 diesel engine and 7-speed auto. We can only dream!


Nick Froome
www.w124.co.uk

 

[BTB 500]

Give me a 4wd system that will let me pull 2 tonnes over muddy rutted terrain, then I'm interested.

A 4wd Sharan might do if it had a centre diff lock and I changed the tyres, but what is its max towing weight?

The Sharan has "EDL" which uses the ABS sensors to monitor each wheel and brake any that spin, sending power to wherever there's most grip (with the Haldex coupling controlling the front/rear split). The braked trailer towing limit is 2000 kg. I bought mine specifically for towing in and out of muddy fields, having got stuck several times with 2WD vehicles in the past. The 4Motion version has slightly higher and softer suspension, but obviously ground clearance doesn't match a 4x4. The top speed of 133 mph might restrict the choice of tyres, it runs on W rated ones. This is my Sharan in fairly typical pose.

 

[grober]

German Price extrapolation ouch!

On the grounds of fairness I've been doing a little research on the German MB website. I chose 2 models to represent 4matic price differences in Germany.

1. C class saloon 280 petrol avantgarde auto 4matic = add £2,870 to price of 2wd equivalent saloon

2. E class saloon 280 cdi elegance auto 4matic = add £3,269 to price of equivalent 2wd saloon

Using these add on figures would give an price of £28,600+£2,870= £31,470 for a C class 280 petrol saloon avantgarde 4 matic in the UK +11%
AND
£34290+£3,269=£37,559 for a E class 280CDI saloon elegance 4matic in the UK. +9.5%

For comparison an ML E320CDI SE auto 4X4 in the UK would cost £39,465

I deliberately chose non base models to try to reflect the spec most people would probably want and didnt include the S class. You cant get 4 cylinder 4matics the option is only available on a variety of v6 and v8 models.
It would appear that adding 4matic adds about £3000 to the price representing an approximate price increase of 10%

Prices of E class 4matics are on a par with a similar spec'd MLs. While C class 4matics are about £6-8,000 cheaper but at present dont have a diesel engined 4matic version.

These are just estimates of course based on web site prices in Germany and the UK, but represent a fairly hefty price increase over the standard saloon.
As far as I know 4matics are assembled by Steyr at the Gratz plant in Austria together with MLs and Jeep Grand Cherokees
Heres another picture of the system on the last e class

 

[Birdman]

It would be a pity if you decided against the new 4matic system due to out of date information.

But is it as good as Audi's Quattro system? AMG entire range is the obvious candidate for it so what are they waiting for? Perhaps M-B have produced a 4WD system unsuitable for sports saloons. On the current E55 the traction warning light goes on when you floor it in the wet or dry. How reassuring is that?

 

[glojo]

But is it as good as Audi's Quattro system? AMG entire range is the obvious candidate for it so what are they waiting for? Perhaps M-B have produced a 4WD system unsuitable for sports saloons. On the current E55 the traction warning light goes on when you floor it in the wet or dry. How reassuring is that?

I have spoken to an owner of the E-class 211 4Matic and he used to own an Audi Quattro. He states there is simply no comparison when driving in snow or icy conditions. The 4Matic is the better vehicle. He actually lives in a very cold part of the US and 4 wheel drive is a must for winter driving when not on the main freeways.

Not sure about the footwell intrusion - looks pretty significant on the S Class pic to me.

Regarding the excellent point made by Philip regarding the footwell, then he has hit the nail right on the head. They have very clearly NOT solved the problem of the intrusion and it is indeed unacceptable. You CANNOT have your left leg pressing against the right for any length of time. We talk of the 'Deadmans' foot rest for the left foot, but clearly this would not be available because of the protrusion. I personally believe that a 4Matic option is going to remain a dream for the current crop of models.

The R-class has still not impressed me with its looks, but that will have permanant four wheel drive.

John

 

[Birdman]

I have spoken to an owner of the E-class 211 4Matic and he used to own an Audi Quattro. He states there is simply no comparison when driving in snow or icy conditions. The 4Matic is the better vehicle. He actually lives in a very cold part of the US and 4 wheel drive is a must for winter driving when not on the main freeways. John

Til the body rusts away from the road salt and the transmission's electronics start to fail. Like they do.
Btw I thought the discussion was about UK driving conditions not the Nebraskan back roads in midwinter.

 

[glojo]

Til the body rusts away from the road salt and the transmission's electronics start to fail. Like they do.
Btw I thought the discussion was about UK driving conditions not the Nebraskan back roads in midwinter.

I think snow and ice, is snow and ice no matter where?

Salt unfortunately is apparantly old hat and we are behind the ball on looking after our roads.

I don't think corrossion is a problem on the 211, but watch this space.

I would appreciate more details on the transmissions electronics failing???

If you have any input on RHD 211 4Matic's then PLEASE feel free to post it, otherwise we have to ask 'foreign' LHD owners for their opinions.

I just happened to ask somone that has owned both the Audi (which was in answer to a question) and the 4Matic.

Have a happy New Year and sorry if my post ofended you.

John

 

[fuzzer]

i quite agree John ,

What diference does it make .. in fact .. isnt it a better example to give of somewhere thats constantly hammered with bad weather than here where we get the odd bit of snow ?