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Advice Needed - DD Conviction

Rose Chap

MB Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
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1,468
Location
Cambridgeshire
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Lexus GS450h
Morning all,

A good friend of mine (and I don't mean me) was stopped by the Boys in Blue with a reading of 88 milligrams of alcohol in his blood when the legal limit is apparently 80 milligrams. This is after he had been 'downtown' and given blood in the police station after a positive breathalyser on the side of the road.

He know's he's done wrong, and know's he's due for some punishment. I just wonder if any of the learned folks here know what he's likely to face in terms of ban length, size of fine, things like that. Its his first offence.

Cheers
 
Normally first offence is 18 months reduced to 12 months if he agrees to attent lectures on drink driving. Plus of course, a sunstantial fine, plus additions to his insurance premiums when the license if recovered for 10 years. Financially it will probably cost him a few grand over the 10 year period. Fines and ban may also depend on the judge.
 
If it's his first time then it will almost certainly be the minimum 12 months ban.

Fine will depend on his circumstances and what mood the magistrates are in.

The real financial penalty will begin when he gets his licence back and tries to obtain insurance again.
 
Like Plodd says, depends on the mood of m'learned magistrate and how good a case he makes for not having too long a ban if he (really) needs his licence for work, etc.

Builder I know had a 12 month ban, got caught again 10 years later and then only got 6 months.

Hopefully your mate will learn his lesson and won't do it again (for all our sakes).
 
Rose Chap said:
Morning all,

A good friend of mine (and I don't mean me) was stopped by the Boys in Blue with a reading of 88 milligrams of alcohol in his blood when the legal limit is apparently 80 milligrams. This is after he had been 'downtown' and given blood in the police station after a positive breathalyser on the side of the road.

He know's he's done wrong, and know's he's due for some punishment. I just wonder if any of the learned folks here know what he's likely to face in terms of ban length, size of fine, things like that. Its his first offence.

Cheers

He should have been given a sample of his own blood by the police doctor. He should get it independantly tested. As he was just over the limit, there is a possibility that by the time he got to the station and had the blood taken, that it had reduced. If his personal test comes back under 80mg he's off the hook so to speak. The conviction relies upon the blood results.

As guide if he is convicted its a mandatory minimum 1 year ban plus substantial fine. However the fine can be reduced if there are mitigating circumstances such as poverty. If he can afford it, its worth getting a brief.

At the very least the experience should have made him cr4p himself and serve as a very very big warning. I've been stopped twice for 'routine' checks and asked to take a test. On each occasion I was way way under the limit (light didnt budge off green) but it does shake you up.
 
Thanks for all the positive advice so far, its a unpleasant situation and no mistake. Thanks especially for the advice about getting the blood test independently verified - I've already passed this on to him.

Regarding the fine, I understand its down to the 'mood' of the Magistrate, but any ideas of ballpark figures?
 
Hi, as someone who has had the experience - crashed into a lamp post outside the police station - in fact, it was ne of the Plod who opened my door to get me out - 2 years ban on my licence + astronomical insurance premium later - also a fine of 250 quid.

It was 5 years ago and I'm just starting to come out of its shadow.
 
Hi,

Blood samples are both taken, divided and sealed at the Police Station so results should be identical i.e. there is no chance for personal sample to diminish (unless it's tampered with!).

Motto: Don't drink and drive and take your 'lumps' if caught.

Cheers,
 
Sorry to hear of your experiences tmienterprises. I was banned for only 7 days for straying over 100mph in my 190E days and whilst the fine and the ban were easily recovered from, it was the insurance premiums that caused the real pain, and my experiences aren't anywhere near as severe as yours.

Glad things are starting to work out for you.
 
Dieter said:
Hi,

Blood samples are both taken, divided and sealed at the Police Station so results should be identical i.e. there is no chance for personal sample to diminish (unless it's tampered with!).

Motto: Don't drink and drive and take your 'lumps' if caught.

Cheers,

I'm sure he won't do it again!

I can see the logic of the samples being taken, the divided for testing. However, what is the likelihood of the police sampling being wrong? I take it that if reasonable doubt could be cast as to the accuracy of the sampling method or results, then the case against my friend would collapse, just as it would if you proved a radar gun was reading incorrectly on a speeding conviction for example?
 
If your friend is a member of the AA / RAC etc he may get free legal advice that way. Given that he is looking at a ban I would recommend he get proper legal advice sharpish - he may well have done wrong but he's still entitled to a proper defence.

Any advice the police give him will be from their point of view and almost inevitably based on making their lives as straight forward as possible. Nothing wrong with that, but your friend should realise that and go and get professional advice from someone with his best interest in mind.
 
tmienterprises said:
Hi, as someone who has had the experience - crashed into a lamp post outside the police station - in fact, it was ne of the Plod who opened my door to get me out - 2 years ban on my licence + astronomical insurance premium later - also a fine of 250 quid.

It was 5 years ago and I'm just starting to come out of its shadow.

That took some guts admitting to that. Hopfully you have learned from your "mistake" and so will others.
 
So a fine can range anywhere from about £250 upwards?

He won't be able to plead poverty unfortunately, but I know when I went to court for speeding in March 2000 they essentially means tested me by asking how much I was earning at the time. Does anyone know if this diabolical practice is still used?
 
I made the same mistake some 20 years ago - got stopped on a motorcycle and was 95mg/litre, so 15mg over the limit.

I got a year's ban and £120 fine. Someone who was getting done before me in court got an 18 month ban and a £400 fine, but he had been involved in an accident.

Insurance was "interesting" for the first couple of years once I got my licence back - after about five years I wasn't loaded any more.

Best of luck to your mate
 
I know someone who was caught nearly three times over the limit, knocked someone over, wrote his car off and got off scot free - where is the justice in that? The lady he hit is now paralysed i think and a regular visitor in the lcoal hospital.

Absolotley scandalous, his fear of needles stopped him from getting a conviction and a very good sob story coupled with a very rich daddy.

Shame the court never heard about his drug habit... which involved needles.
 
mobeyone said:
I know someone who was caught nearly three times over the limit, knocked someone over, wrote his car off and got off scot free - where is the justice in that? The lady he hit is now paralysed i think and a regular visitor in the lcoal hospital.

Absolotley scandalous, his fear of needles stopped him from getting a conviction and a very good sob story coupled with a very rich daddy.

Shame the court never heard about his drug habit... which involved needles.

I would like to know the full circs of that case.

A fear of needles is NOT enough to refuse a blood test.
 
Hi RC,

You're right, each analysis has a degree of precision (i.e. alcohol concentration is not an absolute it's a measurement). For another lab to get a value of 80 mg% (or below) then the (Police) error would have to be in the order of 10% i.e. difference between 88% and 80%.

If the result was within their errors (around 80%) they would probably repeat the measurement to make the value more precise else they wouldn't (be able to) bring the charge. If an independent measurement were to be 80% or less I'm sure the Police would contest this measurement (else their assay procedure could be seriously invalidated).

Your friend was unlucky to be just above the limit but above the limit (he/she) (probably) was.

Compared with Europe the UK 80 mg% criteria is quite liberal as I believe in other Countries the limit is 40 mg%.


Cheers,
 
Dieter said:
Hi RC,

You're right, each analysis has a degree of precision (i.e. alcohol concentration is not an absolute it's a measurement). For another lab to get a value of 80 mg% (or below) then the (Police) error would have to be in the order of 10% i.e. difference between 88% and 80%.

If the result was within their errors (around 80%) they would probably repeat the measurement to make the value more precise else they wouldn't (be able to) bring the charge. If an independent measurement were to be 80% or less I'm sure the Police would contest this measurement (else their assay procedure could be seriously invalidated).

Your friend was unlucky to be just above the limit but above the limit (he/she) (probably) was.

Compared with Europe the UK 80 mg% criteria is quite liberal as I believe in other Countries the limit is 40 mg%.


Cheers,

In fact the Police error would have to be more than 10% - the result from sample that goes to the lab is given as a minimum and that usually involves cutting the actual result by 7% before it is returned to the Police....
 
Thanks Dieter, that makes a lot of sense.

Thanks also to everyone else for the advice, its great to know there is such a rich seam of knowledge and support on this forum which can be mined when needed.

Andy
 
I know that this is probably going to be a stupid question, but how much would you have to have drunk to be at 88 mg.....I supose I should know, but I tend to just stick to a pint to be on the safe side.
 

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