AMG GT-R issue - help required

[Monkeylegend]

Yes it’s PPF’d - used soft99 light wax and topped it with P&S beadmaker

There was a thread on either here or Piston Heads recently re insurance cover being invalidated because of a non declaration of PPF. Might be worth a read and make sure your insurance know about it if you haven't already declared it.

 

[Simon737]

There was a thread on either here or Piston Heads recently re insurance cover being invalidated because of a non declaration of PPF. Might be worth a read and make sure your insurance know about it if you haven't already declared it.

Thanks, I’ve noted it on my insurance

 

[AMGeed]

It's been remapped and that's what's melted the cats. It's well known you need to swap them out for sports or decat when tuned.

Go back to the dealer who clearly didn't know and as such didn't disclose to you that it's mapped.

Re the bolded part, is this only referring to remapping the M177/178 engine?
I ask as my M157 engine was remapped at MSL and at no point was I advised to decat or change out the OEM cars for sports cats?

 

[Steve84N]

Interesting, thanks for your input - is there a way of determining that this has been the case (other than the cats melting?). No idea again on the tech side of a remap - I’m guessing it can be un-remapped (is that even a word!? ) but is there another way of finding out (proof)

The cars ECU will have a log of all changes, most likely including a time stamp. Dealer level diagnostics can detect it. They can of course flash back the standard map.

Got to ask how you have managed to find that.

I haven't melted any cats myself but as I've been tuning my (BMW) car each stage of tuning requires different levels of hardware. After the basic map with no mods then you're supposed to fit a high flow cat and then finally a bigger intercooler for the most powerful map.

Each stage you're upping the boost and/or timing. The stock cats are quite restrictive so once you ask for more boost than they were designed for the back pressure builds up and the heat doesn't escape fast enough.

Your issue will be proving the dealer knew it had been remapped.

Ignorance is no defence of the law. The ECU will have a log of any changes.

Ok - I hear you, thanks again for your help. Is there any history via the ECU data?? Only asking because I’m on side with the head tech at my local MB dealership.

They should be able to interrogate the ECU for its history.

Re the bolded part, is this only referring to remapping the M177/178 engine?
I ask as my M157 engine was remapped at MSL and at no point was I advised to decat or change out the OEM cars for sports cats?

No, it was a more general comment. I expect the M157 doesn't need to run much more boost to make big power given its capacity. The M177/8 will rely on higher boost pressures to make big power to compensate for the lower capacity. It is a general issue that too much boost for a cat that's not capable for it will create too much heat/back pressure leading to them melting.

 

[Simon737]

The cars ECU will have a log of all changes, most likely including a time stamp. Dealer level diagnostics can detect it. They can of course flash back the standard map.


I haven't melted any cats myself but as I've been tuning my (BMW) car each stage of tuning requires different levels of hardware. After the basic map with no mods then you're supposed to fit a high flow cat and then finally a bigger intercooler for the most powerful map.

Each stage you're upping the boost and/or timing. The stock cats are quite restrictive so once you ask for more boost than they were designed for the back pressure builds up and the heat doesn't escape fast enough.

Ignorance is no defence of the law. The ECU will have a log of any changes.

They should be able to interrogate the ECU for its history.

No, it was a more general comment. I expect the M157 doesn't need to run much more boost to make big power given its capacity. The M177/8 will rely on higher boost pressures to make big power to compensate for the lower capacity. It is a general issue that too much boost for a cat that's not capable for it will create too much heat/back pressure leading to them melting.

Excellent, I think my next plan of action then is to get the car back to my main MB dealer and we’ll go through the process of having a look at the ECU data….maybe the next port of call after that would be Mercs ‘Gesture of Goodwill’… for a car that’s done 17k and cats to have melted something is catastrophically wrong somewhere. It has full service history (albeit not all services at a main MB dealer) but a contribution at this stage would be a big help.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Excellent, I think my next plan of action then is to get the car back to my main MB dealer and we’ll go through the process of having a look at the ECU data….maybe the next port of call after that would be Mercs ‘Gesture of Goodwill’… for a car that’s done 17k and cats to have melted something is catastrophically wrong somewhere. It has full service history (albeit not all services at a main MB dealer) but a contribution at this stage would be a big help.

If the damage was caused by a modification then a goodwill contribution from Mercedes would be very unlikely. If a modification causes an issue during the manufacturers warranty period then the claim would be void.

Even if they did make a contribution then it would only be for genuine Mercedes parts fitted by a main dealer. Even with say a 50% contribution then it may still cost you more than aftermarket parts fitted by an exhaust specialist or tuner.

The trader who sold it to you may be the best chance of receiving a contribution. Being a wear and tear part - albeit a blooming expensive one - then that will probably reduce the size of any co tribute in offered.

 

[Simon737]

If the damage was caused by a modification then a goodwill contribution from Mercedes would be very unlikely. If a modification causes an issue during the manufacturers warranty period then the claim would be void.

Even if they did make a contribution then it would only be for genuine Mercedes parts fitted by a main dealer. Even with say a 50% contribution then it may still cost you more than aftermarket parts fitted by an exhaust specialist or tuner.

The trader who sold it to you may be the best chance of receiving a contribution. Being a wear and tear part - albeit a blooming expensive one - then that will probably reduce the size of any co tribute in offered.

Yes, first option here is to find out if it has been remapped - I had a C63S W205 before this and I’ll be honest the power delivery is night and day different - for 70hp extra, I’m didn’t realise it would be as quick….so maybe it has been remapped? If that’s the case obviously the dealer lies at fault. If it hasn’t been remapped and again the data from the ECU proves that then I’ll go down the route of a gesture of goodwill. I was quoted £6.5k originally for the cats to be replaced by MB.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Yes, first option here is to find out if it has been remapped - I had a C63S W205 before this and I’ll be honest the power delivery is night and day different - for 70hp extra, I’m didn’t realise it would be as quick….so maybe it has been remapped? If that’s the case obviously the dealer lies at fault. If it hasn’t been remapped and again the data from the ECU proves that then I’ll go down the route of a gesture of goodwill. I was quoted £6.5k originally for the cats to be replaced by MB.

Are they confident that it’s the melted cars causing the Engine Management Light?

 

[Steveml63]

To the OP.
Do you have a copy of the dealer advert when you bought the car?
Does this or the sales invoice describe the car - including the power output & engine details?
If the dealer advert shows the power output and this matches a standard car - and your MB dealer can prove from the ECU data that the car is remapped, then the car will have been “mis-sold” to you.
This would leave you in a much stronger position to either reject the car or to claim compensation from the selling dealer.
This compensation should cover the cost of the current repairs as well as the extra insurance costs, once you declare that the car has been remapped to your insurance company!

 

[Simon737]

To the OP.
Do you have a copy of the dealer advert when you bought the car?
Does this or the sales invoice describe the car - including the power output & engine details?
If the dealer advert shows the power output and this matches a standard car - and your MB dealer can prove from the ECU data that the car is remapped, then the car will have been “mis-sold” to you.
This would leave you in a much stronger position to either reject the car or to claim compensation from the selling dealer.
This compensation should cover the cost of the current repairs as well as the extra insurance costs, once you declare that the car has been remapped to your insurance company!

Yes it did show all that info (showing it was stock) - this is what I’m hoping to determine this week and fingers crossed it is/has been the case.

Are they confident that it’s the melted cars causing the Engine Management Light?

Yes, I’ve got video evidence that MB used an endoscope taking at the upstream o2 sensor to look at it.

 

[Stevie1982]

@Steve84N completely get that yet how many dealers in particular independent will put a car on the dyno or have the ability to plug the car into a diagnostics to see if it is still mapped. Most will take the word of the individual. In this case if the car has full history, had a recent service and MOT and at the time of sale was fit for purpose, had no clear and obvious errors then I struggle to see what support the OP will get from the supplying dealer as they will sit behind the above, they weren't to know, OP was happy with the car and can see this going the small claims route. Hope for the Op sake it doesn't come to that and the supplying dealer does the right thing.

 

[kcsun]

I will ask for you on an AMG forum I am on
kc

Sorry no one has answered so can only assume the original owners have moved on and do not use the forum anymore
kc

 

[Simon737]

Sorry no one has answered so can only assume the original owners have moved on and do not use the forum anymore
kc

No probs at all, thanks very much for trying

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I shared the registration numbers on the AMG GT Owners UK group, but nobody knows the car.

 

[Steve84N]

@Stevie1982 of course the dealer didn't know it was mapped. In fact, I'd be willing to wager they didn't even ask the previous owner. They simply value it by the book for year/mileage and adjust for kerb rash on the wheels etc. I've yet to come across a car salesman who knows much about cars.

They took the risk of buying that car into stock and made a profit from selling it. I think there is some recourse to be had.

 

[f17ant]

Re the bolded part, is this only referring to remapping the M177/178 engine?
I ask as my M157 engine was remapped at MSL and at no point was I advised to decat or change out the OEM cars for sports cats?

Simple stage 1 wouldn’t require any supporting mods, stage 2 or stage 2+ would require some supporting mods, you can have mods with a stage 1 to help gain even more bhp without stage 2 stress but not required

If you needed anything MSL would have pointed it out

 

[SL63Mark]

Moving forward, I would have it "unmapped" and fit new cats that can do the job. There must be some non-MB ones out there for less than £6k

It is a lovely car.

 

[Skd884]

Possible option

Akrapovič | World Championship-Winning Exhaust System Technology

Akrapovič | World Championship-Winning Exhaust System Technology

www.akrapovic.com

 

[rOckyAMG]

I think I seen your car on instagram. It's worth checking on there for any evidence

 

[Petrol Pete]

Melting catalytic converters must take some doing , they often operate normally at around 700 degrees Celsius , they must have been at double that to melt (If stainless) , I'm surprised the car did not burst into flames if thats the case.

OP says there are only 4 of this colour in the UK and yet no one seems to 'know' the car .

Apropos of nothing here is a damaged cat that I replaced on my Toyota Yaris run around . To this day I have no Idea how it happened EML light came on because input and output temperatures were out of whack.





PS , Nice car , should be out and about being enjoyed , not parked up , shame really (The GT-R , not the Yaris )