Are these the Mercedes dreaful years/cars?

[flango]

Dryce, of course if you compare even the bad Mercedes to some other cars the Mercedes should still "taint" the other cars. It's a Mercedes! The point is comparing them to the actually great Mercedes. This is the thing. Those years may be good, if you are lucky it seems. But Mercedes are supposed to be great, not just good.

As for the weasel insult, don't bother. I know this is the internet and people will say anything, even if they would not have the guts to say it in person. That is more of a weasel thing for me really.

But reading your words and accusations would make a misinformed person think I came up with the whole Mercedes low quality reputation thing for those years, while it's pretty common knowledge really.

Whoever told you Mercedes were GREAT ? they are not they are just good but a brand trading on past reputation as the build quality and engineering on the new cars is not up to the level of best in class, ranking the Germans now in terms of build quality and engineering for me it would be

1. Porsche
2. VW
3. Mercedes
4. BMW
5. Audi

The cars from the era you are talking about did have their rust issues there is no denying that but up to MY 2000 they were very well built, screwed together well and had old school engineering principles that allowed for DIY maintenance give me a car from that era any day than the hi tech, euro boxes turned out today.

The 124 came with its own set of issues, rust, rust, rust, dodgy wiring loom, failed suspension mounts, oil starvation oh and did I mention rust?

Every generation has its issues and Mercedes is not alone in this, there are good and bad in every brand but I love my 1997 W208 and will not part with it even now I have bought an Audi R8

 

[def90cars]

Look at the W124 and the outstanding reputation it has........

.....for rusty front wings.

Get over yourself about the "good old days".

just my opinion

 

[MM85]

Whoever told you Mercedes were GREAT ?

Well, yes, they were. Emphasis on were. For the very new ones the jury is still out as they are, well, new. We will know in a few years.

they are not they are just good but a brand trading on past reputation as the build quality and engineering on the new cars is not up to the level of best in class, ranking the Germans now in terms of build quality and engineering for me it would be

1. Porsche
2. VW
3. Mercedes
4. BMW
5. Audi

Yes, exactly. If they can trade on their on past reputation it means they were great once. This is my point. I think we agree the older cars had better build quality and engineering.

As for you ranking, this is definitely a matter of opinion, much like my own opinion. So I won't go there.

The cars from the era you are talking about did have their rust issues there is no denying that but up to MY 2000 they were very well built, screwed together well and had old school engineering principles that allowed for DIY maintenance give me a car from that era any day than the hi tech, euro boxes turned out today.

The 124 came with its own set of issues, rust, rust, rust, dodgy wiring loom, failed suspension mounts, oil starvation oh and did I mention rust?

Every generation has its issues and Mercedes is not alone in this, there are good and bad in every brand but I love my 1997 W208 and will not part with it even now I have bought an Audi R8

Like I said, the W124 had it's share of problems. But yet, it still have a fantastic reputation, regardless of what you or I may say in this thread. As I said, whatever it had was not enough to taint it. Can't say the same about the 1996-2006 models which are mentioned over and over to be not as good. This is my whole point really. Nothing else.

 

[MM85]

.....for rusty front wings.

Get over yourself about the "good old days".

just my opinion

And yet, the W124 still has a rock solid reputation. This is the point.

This thread is not about the good old days. It's about me wanting to buy a modern Mercedes and getting feedback about when the quality started bouncing back again.

 

[grober]

Its a design philosophy thing. In the "good ol days" Mercedes reputedly designed the car and then worked out how much it was going to cost. Now they work out how much it's going to cost- then design it.

 

[scumbag]

Now they work out how much it's going to cost- then design it.

Now this is where FORD go wrong.

They work out how much it is going to cost, then build it. Saves on design costs.

 

[scottydee]

My W203 is my first experience of MB having always liked MBs I must say that the dream has definitely been tarnished by the actual experience of owning. I doubt I'll be owning another - I can't afford new, and second hand seems to be a pitfall of electronic problems (I'm sure many other modern cars have more electronic stuff to go wrong).
Not sure which direction to head next! Maybe Japanese......

 

[Dryce]

Now this is where FORD go wrong.

They work out how much it is going to cost, then build it. Saves on design costs.

Well it doesn't work that way in reality.

Ford or MB set out to design a product that they can sell for the best margin.

MB traditionally set out the 'how much it is going to cost' at a higher level than Ford and then built it. Same process. Different parameters.

 

[Markymerc]

I have a S204 which has done 70000 Miles. Great car. IMO the only problem is that's although it's classed a family estate car the rear seats are pretty naff. My kids (24,22,19 all 3 petite girls) on the odd occasion they come with us anywhere would rather go in the back of my work Corsa which says it all really. However as it's normally me the long haired general and the dog it's a great car for what we do.

 

[Steve McInally]

Based on my experience I would not recommend any Mercedes from early 2005. I had a lot of rusting issues in my W203. But my experience of W209 was pretty good till now, I have got a good deal out of New Car Discounts | BMW Deals | Audi Deals | Mercedes Deals, so might be my luck running with it.

 

[grober]

If thirty years ago you were to tell Mercedes owners that the engine in the very expensive upmarket saloon/coupe they were about to purchase was essentially a slightly tarted up version of the same engine as that found in the bulk of Mercedes light commercial vehicles of the time they would simply not have believed you - and they would have been right. But times change.

 

[BTB 500]

It really seems that most agree that the Mercs from around 1996 to 2006 are just not as good as the old Mercs. Any case of a good car from this era comes across as just luck or an exception.

That's a bit of a simplification as the R129 SL (for example) was built from 1989 to 2002 ... it's definitely not the case that it suddenly became rubbish in 1996!

 

[MM85]

Its a design philosophy thing. In the "good ol days" Mercedes reputedly designed the car and then worked out how much it was going to cost. Now they work out how much it's going to cost- then design it.

I think you are absolutely right. It definitely feels that way when you sit in them. I never drove a late 90's early 2000's C-Class, but the C208 feels just like what you said. Feels like it was designed and made on a budget. Feels very cheap.

I never drove one of the newer 204 or 212. How do they feel for those who own them?

But I have the feeling the days of over-engineered no expenses spared Mercs like the 124 are gone. I guess they can't sell the cars for that money anymore.

 

[MM85]

My W203 is my first experience of MB having always liked MBs I must say that the dream has definitely been tarnished by the actual experience of owning. I doubt I'll be owning another - I can't afford new, and second hand seems to be a pitfall of electronic problems (I'm sure many other modern cars have more electronic stuff to go wrong).
Not sure which direction to head next! Maybe Japanese......

I hate to say it as this is a Mercedes forum and we are discussing Mercedes reliability problems. But chances are you will not be disappointed if you go Japanese. I have owned several and they are as close as you can get to fill the tank and rive cars. They are very low maintenance, basically never break. Their weakness is that they don't have the soul of a Mercedes or Jaguar. Or the interior for that matter. But they also don't cost as much. You can't have everything.

 

[MM85]

If thirty years ago you were to tell Mercedes owners that the engine in the very expensive upmarket saloon/coupe they were about to purchase was essentially a slightly tarted up version of the same engine as that found in the bulk of Mercedes light commercial vehicles of the time they would simply not have believed you - and they would have been right. But times change.

No kidding. I think Mercedes lost a lot of it's status symbol and reputation when they started cutting corners like that.

And although I understand why they do it, I think all the cheap and low grade model lines launched since the W124 such as A-class, B-Class, CLK etc has dragged the brand name down. What used to be a brand known for high end luxury and performance cars now compete with VW for the bottom feeding bracket. Makes the Mercedes name no longer mean what it used to. I think Porsche now is where Mercedes used to be. Once a sports car maker only, now they offer a full line but have not yet started to compete with the Golf and A3, yet.

 

[MM85]

That's a bit of a simplification as the R129 SL (for example) was built from 1989 to 2002 ... it's definitely not the case that it suddenly became rubbish in 1996!

Sure. Like I said before, it can get a bit muddy with the long run cars.

Also, you can't compare the SL with a C-Class. The C-Class was launched to be the budget car from Mercedes, even though it's ironic that today it's a mid range and even considered high-end by many. While the SL was always a top of the line.

Also, the R129 was designed in the 1980's when Mercedes had a high quality philosophy. Just because it was made till 2002 doesn't make it a 2002 design. Like you said they would not suddenly become rubbish in 1996. They would keep their solid design from when the R129 was conceived and so they did. Specially that being top of the line there is not as strong reason to cut corners and make it cheap.

So this is a totally different matter. The R129 is from the Mercedes golden years regardless if it was made till 2002. That it held that long is already a testament.

 

[grober]

Part of the discontinuity in assessing cars by age is that some had very long production runs back then. The R129 is a good case in point. Altho you still buy one new in the early 2000's this was a car designed in the 80's- much of its running gear is based on the W124- and despite the advent of the bean counter metality of the late 90's such was strength of its design and production philosophy that its engineering integrity still shone through.
A quick look at the first few minutes of this owners manual video supplement will illustrate the meaning of the phrase- they don't make em like that anymore.

PS MM85 Beat me to it- both thinking along the same lines.
[YOUTUBE]Xcaoiul98zw[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Having viewed his other thread I've worked out that whenever the OP asks a question; he is asking it rhetorically in his opinion.

The 'last of the proper Mercedes' argument is a pointless one because to a few aficionados even the E-Class isn't a 'proper Merc'.

 

[MM85]

Part of the discontinuity in assessing cars by age is that some had very long production runs back then. The R129 is a good case in point. Altho you still buy one new in the early 2000's this was a car designed in the 80's- much of its running gear is based on the W124- and despite the advent of the bean counter metality of the late 90's such was strength of its design and production philosophy that its engineering integrity still shone through.
A quick look at the first few minutes of this owners manual video supplement will illustrate the meaning of the phrase- they don't make em like that anymore.

PS MM85 Beat me to it- both thinking along the same lines.
[YOUTUBE]Xcaoiul98zw[/YOUTUBE]

But you kind of stated it more clearly and in a lot less words that I.

 

[MM85]

Having viewed his other thread I've worked out that whenever the OP asks a question; he is asking it rhetorically in his opinion.

The 'last of the proper Mercedes' argument is a pointless one because to a few aficionados even the E-Class isn't a 'proper Merc'.

Sure. Kind of like Porsche 911 owners will say it's the only real Posche and the 924, 944, 928 etc and specially the girly Boxters, poor man's 911 Cayman, Chelsea Tractor Cayenne, poor man's Chelsea Tractor Macan and old man Panamera are not real Porsches. (Seriously, I have heard all those terms from "real" Porsche guys.)

But whether they have a point or not, they are talking about something different. They were most likely referring to the E-Class not being on the same level as a S-Class etc, and it is not. This is why it's cheaper. But we are talking about something different. We are talking about the last proper Mercedes as in the last car which had proper Mercedes quality/build quality. Very different thing.

P.S. I won't touch your flame bait in the first sentence.