Are we ever 100% innocent when involved in a traffic incident

ss201

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My tip

if you want to be a better driver..

learn to ride a motorcycle

My observation and anticipation increased massively once I learned to ride..,without a cage around me..

My tip

if you want to be a better driver
learn to ride a bicyle (that will show you how vulnerable you are)
then learn to ride a motorcycle
 
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glojo

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My tip

if you want to be a better driver
learn to ride a bicyle (that will show you how vulnerable you are)
then learn to ride a motorcycle
You little devil :) . I confess from the very limited numbers of bicycle riders I see, their respect for the laws of the Highway Code are at best very limited. Going through red traffic lights, not giving way to pedestrians on road crossings not giving way at road junctions, cycling on footpaths (and not respecting pedestrians) The list for me is endless but yes, a cyclist is vulnerable
 

knighterrant

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You little devil :) . I confess from the very limited numbers of bicycle riders I see, their respect for the laws of the Highway Code are at best very limited. Going through red traffic lights, not giving way to pedestrians on road crossings not giving way at road junctions, cycling on footpaths (and not respecting pedestrians) The list for me is endless but yes, a cyclist is vulnerable
Although I was a very keen cyclist in my youth (an active member of a cycling club and did a lot of road racing), I have to agree with you John. Of course it’s not all cyclists and it could be just this old codger’s tainted impression, but cycling safety standards do appear to have declined. Knowing that, I just make sure I keep even more of a wary eye out for them when I’m driving. It’s not so easy when I’m walking!

I haven’t ridden a motorbike since my early 30s and I’ll confess to never having taken any courses to do so. I was most likely rubbish at it and could have done with some assessment/training. In my late teens I had a Triumph Bonneville that was typically fast but handled like a yak. At the time I was good friends with the British 350 and 500cc champion and during one of his test days I grabbed an opportunity to do a couple of laps of Brands Hatch. I thought I really caned it. Never even having sat on my bike before, he jumped on and did a standing start lap that was significantly faster than my flying lap. Racing obviously wasn’t for me.

About 15 years later I was commuting home from central London on my Honda CB750. My route took me past Highgate cemetery and I spotted a hearse waiting to pull out. Foolishly I assumed the driver would wait for me to pass, but he didn’t. Thankfully both the hearse and my bike suffered more than me, but it still hurt. I learnt a big lesson that day: never assume what someone else is going to do on the road, no matter how logical or sensible that assumption may seem. My assumption meant that I was partly to blame for the incident, along with the fact that I was wearing all black leathers that didn’t exactly make me easily visible.

Since then I’ve had several advanced car driving lessons and assessments and learnt from every one of them. Lots of things have to be taught, they don’t come from experience alone.
 

Petrol Pete

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My wife was 100% innocent for having the only 'accident' she has ever had while driving , but the insurance companies involved agreed on a 50/50 split of responsibility to both drivers.

I was furious and so was she. he car was actually PARKED , the engine was not running and no one was in the drivers seat ! We were loading the kids in the back and a bloke driving a Volvo hit her parked car in broad daylight.

My insurance broker checked her NCD was not affected and told us that this was sometimes 'normal' practice in the world of insurance to cut down on 'paperwork' . It was a number of years ago so maybe things have changed since then . I can't remember , but she and the idiot Volvo driver might have been insured by the same company.
 
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glojo

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My wife was 100% innocent for having the only 'accident' she has ever had while driving , but the insurance companies involved agreed on a 50/50 split of responsibility to both drivers.

I was furious and so was she. he car was actually PARKED , the engine was not running and no one was in the drivers seat ! We were loading the kids in the back and a bloke driving a Volvo hit her parked car in broad daylight.

My insurance broker checked her NCD was not affected and told us that this was sometimes 'normal' practice in the world of insurance to cut down on 'paperwork' . It was a number of years ago so maybe things have changed since then . I can't remember , but she and the idiot Volvo driver might have been insured by the same company.
A most unusual experience but for you an experience none the less. When my wife had our car rammed in similar circumstances, I contacted the insurance company of the other party and they dealt with the whole kit and caboodle including repair by the Mercedes authorised bodyshop, but I digress.

No claims bonus, protected no claims bonus.
We have to look at these issues with our eyes wide open.. I am not referring to your circumstance. If I had an incident that was recorded as a 50\50 claim, we have a protected no claims bonus and it would not be affected. BUT............... The actual No Claims Bonus might not be affected, but the claim is recorded and it would be highly likely that my insurance premium might go up. Yup the premium might go up because of my accident, but my no claims bonus will be unaffected.
 

Rpp999

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Being a keen motorcyclist for 40+ years I totally agree with the above responses. I was in a previous life a driver in the London Fire Brigade which also added another string to my bow in driving experience. I completed a few of the Police awareness courses for motorcyclists and found them to be very informative and the instructors, a great sense of humour.
I too had an horrific accident whilst in Andorra trying to get a Hybusa through a series of 40mph curves whilst doing 60mph, resulting in a hospital stay of 8 weeks. Totally my fault.
I certainly learnt a valuable lesson that day, Armco barriers definitely save lives.
 

jamesfuller

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As a slightly mad 17 year old I was always told when borrowing a car from my dad that he would consider any accident to be my fault, regardless of what happened. I've always had that in mind. I also had more than one 'moment' in my own car. I was always proud of my cars and kept them well but I wanted to be able to pride myself on my driving too, and stop tormenting my passengers quite so much. I needed to improve myself! I will hopefully never stop improving.
I've tried to hang on to everything I have learned on the rally stage, circuits and advanced driving and put it into practice and my best mate also did the same. we willoften critique eachother and try to keep refreshed with others.
What I have noticed is that my reactions are not as sharp as they used to be! I haven't done huge miles over lockdown and it's also been a couple of years since I packed in rallying. I commute on my trike, so I've still been using the roads, but at a slower pace and with a lot less traffic so hopefully it's not the grey matter giving up.

Getting to the point of this thread, when things go 'wrong' I try to go back through it all and decide what I could have done differently. A few months back I was riding to work and a van pulled out in front of me, I can usually second guess other drivers, and in this case, as soon as I saw the wheels start to roll I knew something was going down. However a wet surface on a corner entry is not a place I wanted to brake on slick tyres and Any chances of tightening my line would have gone out the window.
I have made some notes under the video if you are interested....
 

Tuercas viejas

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I have had three head on.s and survived it.
One in Plovdiv in the Communist/Soviet era where I whacked Soviet Military Zil scout car that suddenly popped out from the middle of a Mil convoy onto the other side of the road.
It tore up the front of a Leyland National bus at about 40 mph and it didn't do the Soviet squaddies' and their Zil a lot of good either!
Basically the collision severely modified the Zil and re-arrange the soldiers anatomy.
Got thrown in a Bulgari slammer until the nice people at the UK insurance company in London paid the Soviets' for the damage. Then I was booted out, walked to the bus and carried on to Istanbul !
Shaken but not stirred Mr Bond
My fault I shouldn't have been on the proper side of the road, and standing by my typically British driving arrogance by maintaining my lane discipline against the Soviet Army.
КРУГЛЫЕ СИСЬКИ
KRUGLYYe SIS'KI

Next 'un was in Egypt.
Scudding along along between Alex and Cairo doing about 50 mph in my trusty mid 80's Series 3 LWB Landrover Safari, I noticed a yellow Toyota pick up with a canvas tilt on it, coming at speed in the other direction.
What caught my eye as it got closer, was about 4 heads and shoulders sticking up at the back as bumper/stepper riding hitch hikers . As it neared me, the truck pitched violently over some road bumps and went airborne. It crossed the road on two wheels throwing passengers out as I T/boned it. The thing rolled up over the hood (bonnet ) and then was vaulted over the roof landing in two pieces aft of the now crippled Rover. I remember Egyptian faces being crushed against the windshield and the terror on a young woman's face hitting the gas before it put the lights out .
The collision had killed all 19 occupants, myself being the only survivor, with me semi conscious. concussion, busted neck bones. lacerations and a busted arm.
What I still remember even to this day, apart from squashed people, was the split second before their doom, & the searing pain of me braking so hard, and having the steering wheel/box coming off the chassis, my arms bending the wheel down against the dash.
That was for me the closest it came to St Peter banging on the roof, & the huge amount of human blood & guts soaking my clothing as I was admitted to an Alexandria hospital .
Inquest result! It was not my fault. but it was the Will of Allah and their time had come. all successfully argued by my local attorney Mr Lekah. (Muslim attorney at Law)

Last one was in Iraq.

I was a passenger with a colleague en route to Mosul in a Toyota Taxi.
A dump truck coming in the other direction decided to overtake on our side of the road and collided head on with the Taxi .
The car went airborne and we landed on the side of the road in a ditch. The driver was killed instantly, and dazed I managed to get my mate out of the car .He had suffered a severe leg fracture as his right leg was at right angles to his body .
The dump truck had just carried on , but shed some tools onto the road including a jack bar which I made into a splint for his leg.
Luckily a bunch of Dutchmen in a Toyota minibus pulled up and carted us back to Baghdad.
Again a big thanks so many years ago now to Mike E, the BA station manager who got Roy onto a plane that evening bound for London and a hospital.
Nursing a few cuts and bruises I got pampered by a bunch of Irish nurses at the Brit Club & in the end I was feeling no pain!
Thanks Maureen & Brigit.
Who was at fault?
Dunno, just in the wrong place at the wrong time
Tuercas viejas
 
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AW8

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Tuercas viejas.


I have been around the block bit more more than some of my age...BUT found your above post grounding, impactive & compelling to read.

Where you a cat in a previous life ?

Thanks for sharing here

FWIW I am self critical when using roads....Perhaps recently more so as mindful I have driven a few less miles in U.K. Lockdown.
 
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Tuercas viejas

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Tuercas viejas.


I have been around the block bit more more than some of my age...BUT found your above post grounding, impactive & compelling to read.

Where you a cat in a previous life ?

Thanks for sharing here

FWIW I am self critical when using roads....Perhaps recently more so as mindful I have driven a few less miles in U.K. Lockdown.
Thanks AWB
I posted it because its so easy to get into a serious life threatening accident which is not your fault !
As it occurs, it seems like in slow motion, but in fact the actual is just split seconds and then the aftermath.
As for the Egypt accident, I was on my way back to Baghdad, and to the Port of Suez , the Saudi ferry boat & to Akaba .

My Iraqi hosts to whom I was seconded, the Baghdad Bus Company (Rakb Baghdad,) held a home coming party for me, and the lady director a Mrs Zahire said , Mr Hadi (my middle name is Harry) you must kill a lamb or goat and spread its blood on your new Landrover. Then give thanks to Allah for your deliverance, like the Angle of Death in your religion as well !
Yes Mrs Zahire .(thinking I have seen enough blood and guts for lifetime)
When I survived the last accident she said Allah has a plan for you and be most thankful Mr Hadi .

As a side bar.
Much later I was talking to a senior bus company official who suddenly looked very worried after a phone call
. I asked him what was troubling him.
I discovered his sister, a mother of several children was very sick with liver & kidney problems. Closer to death than alive .
Mentioning it to the British Ambassador's' wife a pediatrician, she pulled some strings and got her flown to London at the cost of the UK Gov and she came back like new !.
We forget sometimes what unselfish acts by individuals within Gov do for actions of good!

We forget I suppose, in our world of almost instant medical responses by trained professionals we take for granted , that by contrast in many parts of the globe there is nothing. You simply fend for yourself !
Like the lonely road to Mosul, and trying to get my mate out of the mangled car by myself . It was a lonely experience for about an hour or so until these Dutchmen turned up to help.!

Maybe I was spared to father a child (my eldest) who has become a pediatric surgeon, born in Venezuela, she nowadays practices in Houston.
Part of a flying doctor team , but often does overseas assignment in Africa..
Destinations such as Somalia, Kenya and Lesotho land saving kids lives .
Thanks for posting a reply .
TV
 

AW8

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TV...Further post read & digested....with great interest...

I was trying to work out your context of the word "sister" ( no need to share here). I am probably Agnostic, albeit open to aspects of Buddhism. I respect decent those close to me, decent friends & others who "sensibly & responsibly" follow various religions.

You must be so proud of your daughter................Proper job that....a genuine meaningful contribution to betterment of others & global society - RESPECT :cool:👍

ANYWAY...Back on topic...

I agree we often contribute to collisions, (not accidents), but not always.

Driving my old X5 maybe 8 years ago in England. I was travelling on a straight road in daylight with good visibility. A driver in a Honda CRV suddenly emerged from a nearside, (to me), concealed junction. She overshot with front of her vehicle suddenly ahead of & across front of mine. I was doing around 35-40 mph. ( within the 40mph speed limit zone). I was on a single carriageway road. A double decker bus was coming opposite & towards me (just a few car lengths ahead)........CRV was inside my stopping distance zone....I hit the brakes HARD , ABS kicked in, dash lit up with various dash warnings, seat belts all clicked & locked. I swerved right as far as I felt I could & then left , (without losing control or hitting the oncoming bus).

The bus driver had seen what I had ...albeit from his opposite position, (CRV was to his right). As I slightly steered right, the bus driver also moved slightly left (as far as he could do so in time and space he had)..............Somehow I negotiated through the remaining gap...CRV offisde had been straight ahead of me whilst bus ahead to my offside. This may seem odd to some....But in slow motion me & bus drivers eyes met in a millisecond....we seemed to exchange mutually appreciated acknowledgement....almost spooky !

I stopped shortly at next safe opportunity & regained my composure before continuing to destination. I think CRV driver was fairly oblivious to seriousness of what had occurred. ...........I had my immediate household family in my car with me that day !

I kept that car for 12 years & until it was beyond sensible economic repair, (timing chain guides failed). Sold it to a mechanic who repaired it. Fantastic & safe vehicle in my ownership...(I probably spent too much keeping it like that).

I have been in a few close calls, been in some genuine collisions with significant damage & seen many more....BUT that was a VERY close call.

Reactions of me, bus driver, the capability of my car & perhaps some good fate were factors...Could potentially have been a multiple fatal collision with persons trapped.

On that occasion I genuinely don't feel me or bus driver were even partly at fault. I agree that actions of all involved so often contribute to collisions & outcomes. Being brutally self critical I feel I had just 3 options, hit CRV , hit Bus or go for tight gap...........I think I made right decision albeit helped by a switched on bus driver. only way for ME to avoid that collision risk altogether would be for me to have been doing 20mph or less in a 40mph limit or have someone ahead of me carrying a red warning flag. I did not have the luxury of prior moving to a wider offside position as I approached the junction..(not least due to the initial position of the approaching bus travelljng at similar speed to me).
 
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AW8

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Just to add....I may have forced a gap but movements of my car & bus were near simultaneous. Fractions of a second perhaps between me being a driving hero or a killer of kids on a school bus !
 

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