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BP Ultimate

Fair enough guys I am outnumbered and respect what u all are saying but in my defence it never made any differcnce to my car or to some other peoples' cars that I know... MPG stayed the same from the on board computer, and so did the engine noise and I did not notice any extra power what so ever... :)
 
C240Sport97 said:
how/where did you do this and how much did it cost?

Sanspeed did it with 6 goes on the rolling road and three different superchips. Cost was £295 a couple of years ago.
 
Flash said:
Fair enough guys I am outnumbered and respect what u all are saying but in my defence it never made any differcnce to my car or to some other peoples' cars that I know... MPG stayed the same from the on board computer, and so did the engine noise and I did not notice any extra power what so ever... :)
Lots of cars will have ECUs that adapt to the new fuel and adjust the engine accordingly to avoid damage or performance outside of the normal parameters. I didn't notice much difference on my car either, but then I only gave it a couple of fills and really it needs about 5 before anything worthwhile may happen.
 
Flash said:
Fair enough guys I am outnumbered and respect what u all are saying but in my defence it never made any differcnce to my car or to some other peoples' cars that I know... MPG stayed the same from the on board computer, and so did the engine noise and I did not notice any extra power what so ever... :)
I think the Fifthgear test proved that higher spec fuel only works on some cars.
At least they did reset the ECUs and testing the output at the wheel is non-biased and does not rely on the driver feeling a difference.
I've tried Optimax and if anything the mpg was worse, Ultimate was same mpg.
Pity they didn't test Diesel as well as Petrol.
 
Most petrol engined vehicles will rely on the knock sensor to set the ignition timing. If a fuel that has a slower burn rate, (higher octane), is used then the timing will be more advanced.
The ignition retards back from the optimum setting to stop the onset of pre-ignition (pinking), when lower octane fuels are used.
This should then release more energy from the oxygen in the air, thus more power over a longer burn time.

If the said engine is in a low state of tune and has a low compression ratio then there will be little effect from raising the octane level.

The enhancing additives act to slow and stabalise the burn to release more power, as well as having detergent additives to clean the valves and piston rings.
 
Just to add my tuppenceworth - I started using BP Ultimate about 6 months back and my first impression was a noticeable improvement in responsiveness. It was only when I was running on fumes one night a few weeks later and had no alternative but to fill up with 95 RON (Ultimate pump u/s), that I really noticed the (negative) difference.

I then decided to alternate over the next few weeks between Supermarket (usually Sainsbury's) 95 and 97 (Super) and BP 95 and Ultimate. After a few tankfuls of each, the conclusion I came to is that Ultimate definitely seems to make a marked improvement in performance for me (well actually, the car :D ). The Sainsbury's Superunleaded didn't seem to make any difference at all over its standard 95 fuel. All of this is of course somewhat subjective. I didn't carry out any real scientific testing and maybe that's what is really needed.

Can't say I've noticed a difference in MPG as my driving patterns (and style) vary a lot from fill to fill.

Having also seen the programme last night, I am definitely giving Shell Optimax a try on the next fill. I think it's also about 1p per litre less than Ultimate, depending on location.

Just a shame about the Nectar points though :crazy:
 
Dieselman said:
Most petrol engined vehicles will rely on the knock sensor to set the ignition timing. If a fuel that has a slower burn rate, (higher octane), is used then the timing will be more advanced.
The ignition retards back from the optimum setting to stop the onset of pre-ignition (pinking), when lower octane fuels are used.
This should then release more energy from the oxygen in the air, thus more power over a longer burn time.

If the said engine is in a low state of tune and has a low compression ratio then there will be little effect from raising the octane level.

The enhancing additives act to slow and stabalise the burn to release more power, as well as having detergent additives to clean the valves and piston rings.

I was just limbering-up my fingers up to say exactly this ^ ^ ^ !! Glad you beat me to it DieselMan as I have a feeling this will be a long post anyway!!

I don't think it's a coincidence that the two cars featured that showed the greater improvement in performance were both turbocharged (Golf and Imprezza), and that the one that showed the greatest improvement was likely to be running at higher boost (Imprezza). Careful selection by the producer and their advisors, and no doubt the fuel companies concerned - they want to show the fuel to it's best effect!!

The higher octane and greater burn control allowing more boost and therefore liberate even more power. It's this that 'magnifies' the gains on a forced induction engine, and therefore makes it more noticeable.

I drive an Astra Turbo Coupe and I can honestly say that there is noticeable difference in performance. I'm not talking different league with Optimax compared to without, but there is a difference in pick up. How much of this is real and perceived is difficult to know, but what I do know is that scientifically higher octane fuel does have greater potential for producing power, than lower octane fuel.

Forums for owners of turbo-charged cars are full of threads on Optimax and Ultimate, as they potentially have most to gain it's worth a read. It's probably the Subaru/Evo boys though that are keenest as the fierce rivalry encourages them to eek out every last bhp!!

Is it worth the extra money? I almost always use Optimax and have done for three years or so. I know the potential is there for the extra performance, but apart from the odd straight line prod I don't really use it. Fuel consumption is broadly the same. So you could say the benefit is limited for me, but I'd rather have it than not.
 
Bobby Dazzler said:
Careful selection by the producer and their advisors, and no doubt the fuel companies concerned - they want to show the fuel to it's best effect!!

Perhaps, although of course they also tested a run of the mill hatchback and made it absolutely clear there was no power benefit there.

For me the most interesting bit was the difference between the BP and Shell 'premium' fuels, particularly where torque was concerned.
 
i'm currently starting a test using this on my car - just used £80's worth.... so will fill up with another £80 tonight.

no noticable difference yet, but i'll give it a few tankfulls before i make a decision on it.
 
I've tried all 3 Petrols now - My experiences are -

BP Ultimate, no noticable performance or economy benefits

Test Super - Pulls quite well, a little smoother than BP and a lot cheaper but economy not quite so good

Shell Optimax - Approx 20 mpg a tankful better than Tesco Super?? Can't work this one out. I'm thinking it may be due to weather conditions i.e. used Shell in Autumn, Tesco in Winter... Price difference per litre about 6p more expensive so £3.00 per tankful.

I get 185 miles on a tank of Shell and 165 from a tank of Tesco(I do a number of short runs so is really crap on petrol)

I guess based on these figures, if I am correct, the cheaper cost of Tesco fuel is offset by the additional mileage of the Shell.

In summary, Shell Optimax is more expensive than Tesco Super and they both perform to the same level. When MPG is factored in, they both cost roughly the same due to extra mileage achieved using Shell. Therefore, as Shell provide more Additives, it makes sense to use Shell Optimax...

This is all based on my own personal expeience with using the 3 fuels and I'm sure others will produce a different set of results..
 
Optimax diesel

Trip up too Yorkshire last Tuesday, 410 miles round trip on 'normal' diesel. Computer says 41.2 mpg. Same trip yesterday, same conditions (cruise set on 70) on Optimax diesel, 41.1 mpg. Car did feel smoother but I'm afraid at todays fuel prices I want to see real added economy.
 
johninwales said:
Trip up too Yorkshire last Tuesday, 410 miles round trip on 'normal' diesel. Computer says 41.2 mpg. Same trip yesterday, same conditions (cruise set on 70) on Optimax diesel, 41.1 mpg. Car did feel smoother but I'm afraid at todays fuel prices I want to see real added economy.


As we converts keep telling you, it isn't going to make a miracle change on the first litre or tankful, but after 4-5 tankfuls you will notice a difference in smoothness, responsiveness and economy.

I'm still getting 30-40 miles per tank more than before I switched, which more than compensates for the extra £3.50 it costs to fill up. So much so, in fact, that I've printed off the BP Ultimate stations in France for hols the next two weeks, as I don't want to lose what I've now got used to.
 
jdrrco said:
I'm still getting 30-40 miles per tank more than before I switched
I got more than that by driving ~5mph slower than usual on the motorway ;)
 
jdrrco said:
As we converts keep telling you, it isn't going to make a miracle change on the first litre or tankful, but after 4-5 tankfuls you will notice a difference in smoothness, responsiveness and economy.

I'm still getting 30-40 miles per tank more than before I switched, which more than compensates for the extra £3.50 it costs to fill up. So much so, in fact, that I've printed off the BP Ultimate stations in France for hols the next two weeks, as I don't want to lose what I've now got used to.

I appreciate what your saying and I will try 3 - 4 tankfuls. However the mpg I'm getting on regular diesel is about what Mercedes quote. This leads me too believe that my system is not particularly 'clogged up' and is fairly clean.

If all that these expensive fuels do is clean the system then a proprietary cleaning additive would be cheaper. If, as people seem to claim they add mpg's then I would expect to see it over such a distance. Giving me 30 -40 extra miles per tankful is not, bearing in mind the extra cost per gallon, worth it.
 
With regards to your engine being able to automatically alter ignition timing, this obviously doesn't apply to older cars. My SLC has the ignition retarded from factory set (for 98 Ron) to allow it to run properly on regular 95 Ron unleaded, so there would be no benefit to be gained from using a higher octane fuel unless the ignition timing were changed. I have used 98, when fuel was significantly cheaper to buy in France a few years ago and the only difference I noticed was the smell - that stuff didn't half stink funny!
 
From my experience much of the differences between fuels (not counting the additives) is the octane rating which permits a higher compression ratio as it's less suseptable to pre-ignition, which provides the increased power. Without the higher compression ratio it pretty much makes no difference to power.

A number of years ago I was involved in a motorbike road race team and we would use 100 octane low lead aviation fuel mixed with regular 95 octane unleaded. The aviation fuel would give high power but would burn slowly, hence we added the unleaded to speed up the burn. There were a number of teams who would use reference fuel (from memory this had an octane rating at about 110) and the engines had to be specially prepared for this (could tell who was using it as it smelt funny).

One of the benifits of using the high spec fuels are the additives that keep the ports and combustion chamber clean (how often do you have to de-coke an engine these days).

Nick
 
I find the car significantly less responsive on normal unleaded. Optimax, Ultimate or Tesco 99 are all just as good, and mpg increases by about 1 as well.
 
johninwales said:
Giving me 30 -40 extra miles per tankful is not, bearing in mind the extra cost per gallon, worth it.


??!!!

Simple arithmetic mate:

30-40 miles extra = 1 gallon of fuel saved on every tankful, ie £4.50-£4.80.

Extra cost to fill up tank with Ultimate rather than normal diesel = £3.50.

Therefore £1.00 - £1.30 saved on each fill up.

Therefore, definitely worth it!
 

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