Brand New w124 AMG backbox

[MangoMan]

Big money though ...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Brand-New-Ori...286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:2|65:10|39:1|240:1318

Yeah, I'm with you on this one Howard...... Personally I think it's 'Silly' money. But then again that's up to whoever is going to buy it to decide, what it got up to is more like it. You can just about get a whole 124 for £500.00

The Sebring Box I got for my 124/300-24v was only £40.00 and it fitted straight on! Plus the guy brought it down from Reading I think it was.....

But then again I think a lot of these 'After-Market' Rear Boxes are over-priced anyway, I went along to Maccess and got me a nice SS Box for my Celica for £35.00 yes, thirty-five quid! And got it fitted for 40! :bannana: Now that's more like it. After all, why pay Ferrari money when it's not a Ferrari????

 

[BTB 500]

Yup as mentioned the exhaust system on R129 from '96 facelift (?) onward is one piece from the cats back. So it has to be cut off in order to fit the R129 AMG box, and an adapter piece (which is no longer available) fitted. This procedure is detailed in WIS.

As a side issue, it looks a bit daft unless the car has a rear skirt fitted. Mine doesn't, so I got the tailpipes altered to exit higher up and more level.

From memory the R129 rear box retails at around £1500 , although mine was a lot less than that from eBay.de. I couldn't spot any difference (sound or performance) with it fitted. Hence my later removal of the centre muffler.

 

[Mark300SL]

Their systems are generally completely bespoke. They do a lot of R&D and come up with off the shelf designs for Porsche, Ferrari and even Mini - as do Larini etc.

Cat back systems are normally around £500 from them - it's the manifolds that are expensive.

That has been my experience to date too - all of the boxes are made on site with the customers exact spec in mind, All pipework sizing is calculated from the performance and noise requirements of the customer.
They have made me 4 Honda systems and will be making the new one for my turbo 3.2 190 when I finally get it finished

£500+ Vat for the system I have booked in for the 22nd - and a similar price for the 190 - However that will have custom larger frontpipes made as I am using bigger turbos

 

[talbir]

Do you have the part number of the AMG backbox you fitted ?

Since part numbers usually determine what year models the item is applicable too. If there is chopping and mucking about required, it is likely the box is for an earlier model.

AMG boxes also go hand-in-hand with AMG ground effects, i.e. have elongated tailpipes to extend beyond the rear apron....which if it ain't fitted means surgery is needed to the box.

talbir

 

[talbir]

That has been my experience to date too - all of the boxes are made on site with the customers exact spec in mind, All pipework sizing is calculated from the performance and noise requirements of the customer.
They have made me 4 Honda systems and will be making the new one for

Calculated ? How do they do they that ?

If a customer specifies in layman terms they want it 'loud and freeflow', how does that get translated into numbers ?

Also, if i take in two cars, one a 500E, one a 300E, and specify the same sound and performance, will the boxes differ between the two fitments ?

I was quoted GBP 1500+ for the system on a 500E from the downpipes back. Fair enough, that would include performance cats, but i sourced two AMG E60 cats for USD 500 ! The AMG E60 backbox can be sourced for circa £400....not much more than the cats and back box required on a w124 500E, add some cost for piping in between the lot and it's a lto cheaper than 1500 and M119 specific.

talbir

 

[BTB 500]

Do you have the part number of the AMG backbox you fitted ?

Not to hand, but I'm pretty sure there weren't alternative parts. Like I said, the rear exhaust on my '97 is a single piece from the cats back so nothing is going to be 'bolt on':

These are the fitting instructions from WIS for the R129 AMG back box:

 

[stats007]

Calculated ? How do they do they that ?

If a customer specifies in layman terms they want it 'loud and freeflow', how does that get translated into numbers ?

talbir

Years of experience in manufacturing exhausts for customers .

AMG exhausts aren't the be and end all, Talbir, they're one solution to a
complex problem.

 

[kth286]

the exhaust system from cat back on 124 models with 104 engines come as standard as per Bill's picture ie. one piece.

BUT when replacement is purchased, come as two seperate items from dealer, and charged seperately, so you can buy one or the other, or both parts.

 

[fnkhan68]

Slightly off the topic but the part no is hwa 124 491 02 00, can anyone tell me if its pre facelift or facelift. Thanks.

 

[talbir]

Years of experience in manufacturing exhausts for customers .

AMG exhausts aren't the be and end all, Talbir, they're one solution to a
complex problem.

AMG never built exhausts, Sebring built them, i.e. a large exhaust manufacturer who has years of R&D behind them through their motorsport excursions.

So if a local custom stainless steel shop can only offer a system at the same price you can buy the ones approved by AMG/Brabus/Carlsson etc, then it seems wiser to take the tuner option.

I'm still not convinced that the systems are bespoke to the engines in teh cars, something which AMG exhausts definitely were.

talbir

 

[stats007]

Why wiser, Talbir? Sebring didn't make the 'ultimate' exhaust. They made them to specs provided by AMG - cost, style, sound and for TuV approval.

AMG exhausts weren't exactly bespoke - bespoke means each individual car gets an exhaust tailored to it. A design was settled on and each car got the same one. If you go to a respected fabricator like H&S then they will tailor it to your exact requirements - and give you a 25 year guarantee - not something likely to be offered with a purchase on eBay. You can even go back and get them to change the baffles and wadding if you find the sound not to your taste.

That's not to say Mr Khan's offering isn't worthwhile - just plenty of options to consider instead; which why, IMO, it is not worth £500.

 

[talbir]

Why wiser, Talbir? Sebring didn't make the 'ultimate' exhaust.

How did you arrive at this conclusion ? If they didn't with their motorsport and R&D input, who can ?

AMG exhausts weren't exactly bespoke - bespoke means each individual car gets an exhaust tailored to it. A design was settled on and each car got the same one.

Incorrect, wholly incorrect. Please read the AMG catalogs from the 80s and you will see how part numbers vary between models.

If you go to a respected fabricator like H&S then they will tailor it to your exact requirements - and give you a 25 year guarantee - not something likely to be offered with a purchase on eBay. You can even go back and get them to change the baffles and wadding if you find the sound not to your taste.

I've still not been told how they bespoke the exhaust to the car engine and whether the boxes would differ betwwen a 500e and 300e.

What's the guarantee covering ?

talbir

 

[andy_k]

most custom exhaust manufacturers/fabricators will start with a set of data from the manufacturer. They'll then take into consideration any extra tuning/mods you've done to the engine and design a manifold around that to get maximum flow. Years of experience, a few "educated guesses" and they'll be pretty close and a lot better than what was fitted from the factory. The rest of the system will provide back pressure (again another manufacturers statistic) and silencing. They can regulate flow, increase and decrease power etc by the way these factors are incorporated.

As much as you praise AMG exhausts, they are manufactured by a third party using data that's freely available and for the most part largely irrelevant. A tired or worn engine needs a different system to a fresh one. Any mods you've done affecting engine power will be restricted by the original manifold.

I had a custom system built for my old Triumph GT6. Made by Mike The Pipe it cost a lot of money (can't remember how much) but it made a huge difference to the power output compared to the so called "competition system" I had fitted

 

[talbir]

That's interesting. When i got my quote for the 500e, zero questions were asked about mods to the engine. Not sure how they would account for non-visible items such as high-lift cams or larger intake valves that could be adding serious HP output to the equation ?

Headers and a good exhaust will not make any more power than the engine is capable of but it will maximize the power of the installation. In other words, a poorly flowing exhaust could cost 25-40 HP on a powerhouse like a 500E.Manufactured by a 3rd party yes, but one that has years of exhaust manufacturing history at the top of motorsport applications. I praise AMG exhausts because i have used them, I have fitted them myself and have first hand experience, as i do with custom stainless fitters. And having experienced both over the past 17 years, i feel that AMG/BRabus/tuner applications are by far a better optionI'm not knocking the custom fitters, rather feel it's cheap at 500quid to buy a box that is tailored to the car by an MB approved tuner

 

[stats007]

How did you arrive at this conclusion ? If they didn't with their motorsport and R&D input, who can ?

Like any industry there are countless ways to do things - hence the large number of exhaust manufacturers. If there were one correct solution - the end product would be the same.

Incorrect, wholly incorrect. Please read the AMG catalogs from the 80s and you will see how part numbers vary between models.

Totally correct - you're not listening. Every model got the same exhaust - bespoke is each individual car.

I've still not been told how they bespoke the exhaust to the car engine and whether the boxes would differ betwwen a 500e and 300e.

What's the guarantee covering ?

Try ringing them and asking them, it's how you learn things

 

[andy_k]

That's interesting. When i got my quote for the 500e, zero questions were asked about mods to the engine. Not sure how they would account for non-visible items such as high-lift cams or larger intake valves that could be adding serious HP output to the equation ?

Headers and a good exhaust will not make any more power than the engine is capable of but it will maximize the power of the installation. In other words, a poorly flowing exhaust could cost 25-40 HP on a powerhouse like a 500E.

if you read that again, you've kind of answered your own statements from this thread.

A good "bespoke" exhaust builder will want to know any mods you've done/had done to your engine - they make a huge difference to the way the system needs to be made.

if they are not asking you questions, they are not building a bespoke exhaust. you are just getting an expensive off the peg one

 

[talbir]

if you read that again, you've kind of answered your own statements from this thread.

A good "bespoke" exhaust builder will want to know any mods you've done/had done to your engine - they make a huge difference to the way the system needs to be made.

if they are not asking you questions, they are not building a bespoke exhaust. you are just getting an expensive off the peg one

Well it was H&S who didn't ask me !

talbir

 

[talbir]

Like any industry there are countless ways to do things - hence the large number of exhaust manufacturers. If there were one correct solution - the end product would be the same.




Totally correct - you're not listening. Every model got the same exhaust - bespoke is each individual car.



Try ringing them and asking them, it's how you learn things

I thought you as the reference reccomending them would help me understand....clearly not.


talbir

 

[GrahamC230K]

This is tit for tat now.

If you like custom fabriacted exhausts, great if you like AMG originals great.

 

[andy_k]

This is tit for tat now.

no it's not