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C Class W204 Lost 2nd Gear and Reverse (Manual Transmission)

H

HITECH

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Dec 25, 2014
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coldest place in scotland
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C220 CDI
Hi all. Last night i reversed out drive then into 1st to go on a 5 minute journey. I had lost 2nd gear and reverse after doing that one manouvere. Too much going on today for me to physically check it out so doing some research 1st try get armed with some knowledge on this. Does anybody know where exactly top check on the WIS to try source this fault? Ive got a working EPC/WIS so seems a good place to start. Ive done the usual googling and internet searches. Does not seem much info on a manual transmission problem of this kind
 
when you say "lost" do you mean it wont go into 2nd or reverse, or does it move to the right position but there is no drive?
 
Well thats a bit unusual in a manual box,my first thought is a selector has shifted or come lose
 
optimusprime said:
See how old the motors are that i have worked on ,these are nothing like i remember ..Also posting the year of the cart would have shut me up on this one haha .
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Think the older manual gearbox side shift levers and the elaborate gearchange rod arrangements required to operate them may stem from a time many cars had column gearchange levers?
 
Grober its a fact that the the old manual gear changes , and auto boxes in cars of the 1980s had shift linkage levers with bushes in them these bushes fall out over time . Father in law had this old Wolsley 6/42 with the strangest of gear change rods you have ever seen .In the driving seat the gear change lever was on your right hand side , So strange to drive it ..and a few garages local had worked on it to try at getting it right but failed .
 
Thanks a lot all of you for input in here. I really appreciate it. Its a 2013 Saloon 170bhp blue efficiency with start/stop. Yeah Ive replaced gear linkage rods on older cars no problem and im kind of hoping this is going to be similar without being overly costly.
The fault is it will not go over to 2nd gear or go into reverse either. It is the same problem with engine off trying to put it into them gears. Feels like cant reach them. Im crossing everything that i can purchase a replacement manual transmission gear linkage assembly to solve this. I wont find out until next wednesday. One of my mates is sticking it on his ramp to get to the bottom of it all. Ive been off work myself and just going back end of this week. Thanks a lot grober for that link. Zipdip yeah as simple as a selector tod/assembly is exactly what Im hoping is the worst scenario. ive had a run of bad luck the last few months not car related. I need some good luck now.
One question guys where on the EPC or WIS is this assembly stuff. I still havent got round to checking it yet. There doesnt seem to be as much involved with the gear selection as far as linkages go wit this system is there, compared to the older cars?

I also seen this on another non mercedes related forum ( hope its ok to post this ) and it sounds a bit ludicrous to me. Ive never heard of any gearboxes cracking and NOT being drained of all the gearbox oil 1st if there is any kind of leak which is usually a seal if anything.
 
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One of my mates that looked at mine told me what it was and actually showed me. He showed me with the whole gearshift assembly thing apart. He engaged all gears with long nose pipe wrench style pliers. This confirmed the actual gearbox is fine. All gears engaging as normal.The whole gear shift stick lever assembly on the top had crumbled as well as the bush that holds together the connector rod that goes into the gearbox was in bits.. Most of the washers and bushes are actually rubbish weak plastic. Ive a feeling my car was in an un-declared front end crash of some sort before i bought it and it wasnt declared. Somewhere else on pistonheads forum a guy said the gearbox cast had split where the linkage went inside the gearbox. I doubt this very much. He was only going on what he was told. You wouldnt be able to know this unless the whole gearbox was removed. What would have happened is the upper assembly stuff outside the gearbox would have been smashed to bits as mine is. Presently going thru the motions of ordering all the washers, bushes, gearstick linkages. I have a slight very small seepage of gearbox oil around a seal. so the seal is getting replaced aswell and new gearbox oil put in. Hopefully have it back on the road by end of next week assuming all the parts come on time. Interesting to know that this losing 2nd and reverse gear is not (in my case) a replacement gearbox job. I was also told by so called gearbox specialists that this fault was definetely requiring a new gearbox because the damage was internally inside the gearbox. When i started talking about the workings of my gearbox as i had the diagram sitting in front of me they got edgy and seemed to want to GTF ASAP. Seems there might be a bit of ripping off customers involved in this fault. So beware,
 
HITECH said:
One of my mates that looked at mine told me what it was and actually showed me. He showed me with the whole gearshift assembly thing apart. He engaged all gears with long nose pipe wrench style pliers. This confirmed the actual gearbox is fine. All gears engaging as normal.The whole gear shift stick lever assembly on the top had crumbled as well as the bush that holds together the connector rod that goes into the gearbox was in bits.. Most of the washers and bushes are actually rubbish weak plastic. Ive a feeling my car was in an un-declared front end crash of some sort before i bought it and it wasnt declared. Somewhere else on pistonheads forum a guy said the gearbox cast had split where the linkage went inside the gearbox. I doubt this very much. He was only going on what he was told. You wouldnt be able to know this unless the whole gearbox was removed. What would have happened is the upper assembly stuff outside the gearbox would have been smashed to bits as mine is. Presently going thru the motions of ordering all the washers, bushes, gearstick linkages. I have a slight very small seepage of gearbox oil around a seal. so the seal is getting replaced aswell and new gearbox oil put in. Hopefully have it back on the road by end of next week assuming all the parts come on time. Interesting to know that this losing 2nd and reverse gear is not (in my case) a replacement gearbox job. I was also told by so called gearbox specialists that this fault was definetely requiring a new gearbox because the damage was internally inside the gearbox. When i started talking about the workings of my gearbox as i had the diagram sitting in front of me they got edgy and seemed to want to GTF ASAP. Seems there might be a bit of ripping off customers involved in this fault. So beware,
Click to expand...
Ok update on this. This did not get fixed. The fault IS STILL THE SAME. I have 2 options. Try get the number for the service kit from mercedes and order it and would like to do it mysellf or cut to the chase and buy another gearbox. The service kit for this problem involves replacing a spring that breaks plus a few other bearings and clips.
 
i opted for buying a 2nd hand gearbox from Prestige all parts down in Oldham. These guys knew about the fault and sent me the exact part number gearbox and the courier delivery for where I am was great. It was a perfect match. Not the nicest of jobs to do but thankfully a mate was kind enough to let me use ramp in his garage this weekend to remove and fit it. Drained and put in new gearbox oil and managed to get it done n off ramp before his business commences Monday morning. The job itself isnt too bad apart from refitting 3 top bell-housing bolts. Theres not that much really to dis-assemble before the gearbox. Got the job done and was a relief to reverse off the ramp once it was all back together. Not many people with manual gesrboxes about. I took sm pictures if anybody needs any advice on the job. Am now thinking about stripping down the faulty gearbox at sm point to get inside it and see the fault for myself. If i can fix it myself then I can recoup the money back for new one or just hold onto it just in case.
 
HITECH said:
Hi all. Last night i reversed out drive then into 1st to go on a 5 minute journey. I had lost 2nd gear and reverse after doing that one manouvere. Too much going on today for me to physically check it out so doing some research 1st try get armed with some knowledge on this. Does anybody know where exactly top check on the WIS to try source this fault? Ive got a working EPC/WIS so seems a good place to start. Ive done the usual googling and internet searches. Does not seem much info on a manual transmission problem of this kind
Click to expand...
Hi.

I got now same issue. Was in a garage, they lifted a car, disconnected a linkage, tryed to operate gearbox manually directly, something holding rear gear, won't let me get the stick in to correct position. I got 711.653 gearbox. So I going there is problem just with the rear gear pin.

Found place where I can do the repair my self, but it's summer, and not enough experience, so thinking to send it to specialist, 1000£ ffs


I would appreciate if you can let me know how did you solved the issue?

Thanks
 

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HITECH said:
i opted for buying a 2nd hand gearbox from Prestige all parts down in Oldham. These guys knew about the fault and sent me the exact part number gearbox and the courier delivery for where I am was great. It was a perfect match. Not the nicest of jobs to do but thankfully a mate was kind enough to let me use ramp in his garage this weekend to remove and fit it. Drained and put in new gearbox oil and managed to get it done n off ramp before his business commences Monday morning. The job itself isnt too bad apart from refitting 3 top bell-housing bolts. Theres not that much really to dis-assemble before the gearbox. Got the job done and was a relief to reverse off the ramp once it was all back together. Not many people with manual gesrboxes about. I took sm pictures if anybody needs any advice on the job. Am now thinking about stripping down the faulty gearbox at sm point to get inside it and see the fault for myself. If i can fix it myself then I can recoup the money back for new one or just hold onto it just in case.
Click to expand...
Hi.

Om, I am interested in any photos related to swap, fix your gearbox. Also if you already fixed it, I do consider to buy 2hand to swap mine.

Did you found what the issue was?

I bet its a reverse shaft or revers gear holding pin.

😂

Thanks.

Looking forward to hearing from you soon
 

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Sorry, still can't send pm, due lack of messages. Anyway could hitech contact me please,

I have few questions regarding gearbox disassemble process


Ta
 
Surgi said:
Sorry, still can't send pm, due lack of messages. Anyway could hitech contact me please,

I have few questions regarding gearbox disassemble process


Ta
Click to expand...
Ive got pictures yeah. On last nightshift at work just now so will dig them out tommorow. The job itself isnt hard. An actual mechanic helped me a bit with mine and he was one that popped in the akward top bolts when I was fitting the new gearbox. Theres nothing to dis-assembling it and you dont have to actually remove the DPF. Just drop the exhaust down at the DPF. Open the clamp and drop it and the bracket that holds the dpf up is bolted into the bottom of the gearbox housing. Right now i dunno what i can tell you really being at work. I will dig the pictures out and maybe write out what order i done mine in. I have still not had the time to open up the broken one. The price you will pay to get it re-built is most definitely not worth it !. Apparently it is a spring that breaks for the reverse and another part that swings over on the 2nd gear and reverse shaft. I remember the diagram OK and will dig it out and try describe as best I can what I believe that happens to them.
 
HITECH said:
Ive got pictures yeah. On last nightshift at work just now so will dig them out tommorow. The job itself isnt hard. An actual mechanic helped me a bit with mine and he was one that popped in the akward top bolts when I was fitting the new gearbox. Theres nothing to dis-assembling it and you dont have to actually remove the DPF. Just drop the exhaust down at the DPF. Open the clamp and drop it and the bracket that holds the dpf up is bolted into the bottom of the gearbox housing. Right now i dunno what i can tell you really being at work. I will dig the pictures out and maybe write out what order i done mine in. I have still not had the time to open up the broken one. The price you will pay to get it re-built is most definitely not worth it !. Apparently it is a spring that breaks for the reverse and another part that swings over on the 2nd gear and reverse shaft. I remember the diagram OK and will dig it out and try describe as best I can what I believe that happens to them.
Click to expand...
I am on a nights now as well, then 4 off 😂

I just wonder may be it worth to buy a gearbox in working order, and just swap it. As you have done with yours, obviously.

Seen on ebay many of those but not cheap... Get gearbox around 400 delivery, 50, rent a garage 10/h, 4 hours, you recon, took you to dismantle it off your car?

Afraid of undoing the gearbox, spend few weeks with a lot effort but little result 😂 it's summer time now, want to go around and about, a/c on, speed, 170hp 🙄, you know.
 
Surgi said:
I am on a nights now as well, then 4 off 😂

I just wonder may be it worth to buy a gearbox in working order, and just swap it. As you have done with yours, obviously.

Seen on ebay many of those but not cheap... Get gearbox around 400 delivery, 50, rent a garage 10/h, 4 hours, you recon, took you to dismantle it off your car?

Afraid of undoing the gearbox, spend few weeks with a lot effort but little result 😂 it's summer time now, want to go around and about, a/c on, speed, 170hp 🙄, you know.
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it will take you longer than 4 hours. If you have somebody with you that that has changed a gearbox before then maybe if your lucky you can get it done in that time. I found the time consuming things were like positioning exhaust back to the DPF because its solid n rigid. You really need to have 2 of you to do it. One to hold it together whilst the other wraps the clamp around it and tightens the bolts. One or maybe both the clamp tightening bolts will snap which ruin the anti vibration bullets on each side of the clamp. You should order a new clamp and have it there to replace it aswell when you do gearbox. The part number for the clamp is A0004901441 . If you put it back on with without the anti vibration bullets on either side (because bolts snapped) then you will get a leak and small hiss from it. SO REPLACE IT ! I done it on my own and it was a nightmare on my own. Get a helper and save time.

The broken parts and spring for the broken gearbox that is required are gold dust. Mercedes seem to only make it on demand and so far Ive been unable to source it being told its on a back order. The gearbox seems to be actually GM made.

I contacted a company on ebay called reengineeredtransmissions88. They advertised a repair c class reverse gear service. Item for like £450. I emailed them asking what the score is how does it work.
"Hi I had contacted you a while back about advice quote on my gearbox. Mercedes C Class 2013 , 711653 6 speed manual.gearbox. Its lost reverse and 2nd gear. I replaced the whole linkages and gearstick complete but unfortunately it did not solve the issue. What exactly is the service for the price of your ebay item here? Im a bit unsure what to do right now. I can get a replacement working 2nd hand gearbox delivered for £500 with a 3mth warranty. If i was to send you my gearbox to sort its probably going to cost me more than this is it? Just trying to come to a decision now to get this problem sorted."​

You remove the gearbox and send them it.
Then this was the reply i got.

Hi,
This is the labour only (£450+). So if you send your gearbox in for repair, depending on what the damage is with that issue we would charge £500-650+vat to fix it.

the ebay link is
www.ebay.co.uk

FOR MERCEDES C CLASS 6 SPEED MANUAL REVERSE GEAR GEARBOX REPAIR SERVICE 2010- | eBay

A huge range of ready to go,on the shelf fully reconditioned gearboxes for manuals. Semi automatic diagnostics repairs/rebuilds and programming. Automatic gearbox fault finding,repairs and rebuilds with ready to go reconditioned gearboxes on the shelf should you require/need one.
www.ebay.co.uk

Sensible thing to do is get a 2nd hand replacement gearbox with a 3 month warranty. When you get it make sure you drain it of old gearbox oil and put in about 1.3 litres of fresh new gearbox oil. Very important. You will see the old gearbox oil will be like water. Do it before you fit the gearbox. Much easier on the bench obviously. Also DONT BE ALARMED BY THE SIGHT OF LITTLE SHRAPNEL BITS OF METAL because in a used gearbox its expected wear. The new gearbox oil will ensure it lasts the life of your car.
I'll post in order how I done mine after i get a sleep after this nighshift.
 
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