C Class W204 Lost 2nd Gear and Reverse (Manual Transmission)

[Surgi]

Hi.

I did contacted those on e Bay as well. So they offered £470-820+vat for the repairs (this is without fitting).

So it isn't really big difference in a labour prices around this area. I found one guy in Swadlincote, who says their garage can get gearbox out (clutch and gearbox garage), send it somewhere, fixed, get gearbox back on a car all price around 1k. But again, as you said godl dust snapped, (the spring).

Not surprised that this gearbox not made by mb...

I found Secondhand gearbox but I think it going to be a hasting and nightmare to do with no second person for a support

Thinking to drive it to the garage. One week, sorted. In doubt now a little bit.

 

[HITECH]

Hi.

I did contacted those on e Bay as well. So they offered £470-820+vat for the repairs (this is without fitting).

So it isn't really big difference in a labour prices around this area. I found one guy in Swadlincote, who says their garage can get gearbox out (clutch and gearbox garage), send it somewhere, fixed, get gearbox back on a car all price around 1k. But again, as you said godl dust snapped, (the spring).

Not surprised that this gearbox not made by mb...

I found Secondhand gearbox but I think it going to be a hasting and nightmare to do with no second person for a support

Thinking to drive it to the garage. One week, sorted. In doubt now a little bit.

 

[HITECH]

A bit of advice. Carry on driving it as it is. Just adjust your driving routes to make sure you can make straight thru drives to get out of everywhere or where there are slight inclines upwards where u can drive up and the car will roll back for you to turn around if need be. Might sound stupid but thats what i done . To keep the car running and ensure brakes etc didnt start seizing up. Not good for it to be idle.
Whatever way you get it done. The most economical way to do it is buy 2nd hand gearbox and get a quote for fitting it from somebody. Tell them you will give them the car to look at it first and decide on a quote for you. Because their really isnt much to removing the gearbox in the W04. When a mechanic or somebody who knows a bit about cars has a look at the gearbox they will see it is easy. Theres barely anything to remove other than a gearbox mount plate and the propshaft to get started on removing the box. ide say you should be able to do it yourself with a helper. a ramp would be more ideal with the back wheels free to turn. Because removing the propshaft bolts from the gearbox, its much easier to get to them by turning it a 1/4 turn for each one which means letting the back wheels hang free and NOT on a 4 poster ramp. (if your using a 4 poster ramp you should have the back wheels off the ramp). Im sorry not showed pictures yet but i HAVE dug them out and have them handy. right now BUY A 2ND HAND GEARBOX. Thats a defo. Buy it NOW. Then you have it. A £1000 for an indie to change it is excessive and far too much. A mechanic will remove and fit new gearbox in around 3 hours easily.

 

[HITECH]

A bit of advice. Carry on driving it as it is. Just adjust your driving routes to make sure you can make straight thru drives to get out of everywhere or where there are slight inclines upwards where u can drive up and the car will roll back for you to turn around if need be. Might sound stupid but thats what i done . To keep the car running and ensure brakes etc didnt start seizing up. Not good for it to be idle.
Whatever way you get it done. The most economical way to do it is buy 2nd hand gearbox and get a quote for fitting it from somebody. Tell them you will give them the car to look at it first and decide on a quote for you. Because their really isnt much to removing the gearbox in the W04. When a mechanic or somebody who knows a bit about cars has a look at the gearbox they will see it is easy. Theres barely anything to remove other than a gearbox mount plate and the propshaft to get started on removing the box. ide say you should be able to do it yourself with a helper. a ramp would be more ideal with the back wheels free to turn. Because removing the propshaft bolts from the gearbox, its much easier to get to them by turning it a 1/4 turn for each one which means letting the back wheels hang free and NOT on a 4 poster ramp. (if your using a 4 poster ramp you should have the back wheels off the ramp). Im sorry not showed pictures yet but i HAVE dug them out and have them handy. right now BUY A 2ND HAND GEARBOX. Thats a defo. Buy it NOW. Then you have it. A £1000 for an indie to change it is excessive and far too much. A mechanic will remove and fit new gearbox in around 3 hours easily.

You might find that the gearstick selector stuff is all smashed up under the the gearstick aswell. it SHOULD still work with new gearbox because there are only 2 selector plates/rod that go from the gearstick to the gearbox and they are quite rigid. But if whoever changes the gearbox suggests getting new gearstick bottom assembly aswell then they are quite cheap and few minutes to actually change. Nothing complicated. few screws and bolts on the top end. thats it.

 

[colinallcars]

And change the clutch while you’re at it unless you know it’s in good condition.

 

[HITECH]

And change the clutch while you’re at it unless you know it’s in good condition.

Yeah I was thinking about chucking a new clutch in there aswell since the gearbox was coming out. But i thought no. im not going to because it was just after xmas and new year and january is a long financial month. I decided not to and there was plenty left in my clutch. Once you do the gearbox you wont sweat about having to do the clutch if or when you hold onto it long enough to have to do it.

 

[Surgi]

Yeah I was thinking about chucking a new clutch in there aswell since the gearbox was coming out. But i thought no. im not going to because it was just after xmas and new year and january is a long financial month. I decided not to and there was plenty left in my clutch. Once you do the gearbox you wont sweat about having to do the clutch if or when you hold onto it long enough to have to do it.

Thanks for your detailed discussion about the gearbox.

Complicated now. As I decided to sent it to garage, let them do the job, as get information, that 2122600209 part, shifting mechanism not available in the UK, Germany, Poland, Italy, baltic states, run everywhere.. So there are no brand new spare parts.. Imagine I got stuck with a swapping a fork.. It would be few weeks to spend, with all daily routine... Even with the secondhand gearbox.

In a garage offered to change a clutch at no extra cost. Thinking now

 

[Smart320]

Worth the cost of a new clutch as there will be zero extra cost to install it, look on the positive side , at least no chance then of the clutch failing in 3 months time

 

[HITECH]

Thanks for your detailed discussion about the gearbox.

Complicated now. As I decided to sent it to garage, let them do the job, as get information, that 2122600209 part, shifting mechanism not available in the UK, Germany, Poland, Italy, baltic states, run everywhere.. So there are no brand new spare parts.. Imagine I got stuck with a swapping a fork.. It would be few weeks to spend, with all daily routine... Even with the secondhand gearbox.

In a garage offered to change a clutch at no extra cost. Thinking now

The shifting mechanism inside the gearbox that breaks mate. FORGET IT. Like I say its probably made on demand. GOLD DUST. If I can get one one day i will grab one for the right price and fix my broken one then flog it for money back. If you got offered to put in a new clutch and fit the new gearbox then go that way. It makes sense as they will have to completely detach the gearbox which makes no odds to them for them to chuck it out the way and raise the new one into place after new clutch been installed. My point about not fitting a new clutch was the un-neccesary cost to myself as there was plenty left on my clutch. So if I included the price of a complete clutch and the gearbox ide be up to £1000 and thats just fitting it myself. There is a 3 mth warranty with 2nd hand gearbox. Majority of them will be fine as long as they are from a car PAST 2013 because was 2013 there was dodgy manual boxes put into the W04's. 2nd hand gearbox I got for mine was 2014.
New clutch £350+
gearbox £400+
gearstick assembly linkages £80+ (2nd hand)
labour for fitting £300+ ???
just making a stab in the dark at price really.
Make sure if you have to buy the gear stick linkage assembly buy it 2nd hand complete. The logistics of sending the gearbox for a refurb are non economical and an inconvenience because , 1. the part is gold dust, 2. your car is off the road and held to randsom to wherever u sent it and they can charge whatever they want. Most likely what a brand new gearbox would cost.
Its swings and roundabouts really. But yeah buy the clutch, buy the gearbox, get it all fitted for the price of a new clutch installed. They SHOULD include fitting the gear stick assembly in with the new clutch aswell because they have to dis-assemble that too to remove the gearbox.
Sounds like you got a plan now. Make sure the replacement gearbox gets the oil oil emptied out of it and new gearbox oil put in it. Thats a must !

 

[Surgi]

Thanks for those advices, some stories, experience...

I have sent car to gearbox and clutch specialist In Swadlincote (just received a call from them like, "sorry pal we broke you merc internal door handle, unbelievable) it isn't working now, so I believe those specialists will reduce labour price because of that.

They think charge me for getting gearbox out and re fit it (200£ +, vat).

This please don't do a manul gearbox repairs, so they will send it for a repair / rebuild to "Ace gearbox specialist" ..., so looks like Swadlincote garage not good enough? wierd. Or just rare model of gearbox.

"Ace" will charge for rebuild 650£ whole gearbox, change a coil spring inside (rear gear changing mechanism) for some more durable item, change a bearings as well (cost on luk website 110£ a set), but I have no chance to check it... I won't be able open the gearbox to check it inside
So I keep believe that this is truth, and the "ace" specialist won't just swap a gearbox for another one... With similar numbers 711.653
Will see.
By the way, "ace" give 12 month warranty, that's a bit Impressive.

Also those guys in Swad advice me to change a clutch set, they starting to assure me that this set is very expensive and hard to match it online.
May be they say that coz its no extra cost to fit the clutch as they mentioned before.

So I got the clutch set from local luk representative for 220£ with no clutch cilinder, just two parts set (used Wis/asra to find the part number out) 0252509601

So next week I'll find out how good are they.

 

[Surgi]

Thanks for those advices, some stories, experience...

I have sent car to gearbox and clutch specialist In Swadlincote (just received a call from them like, "sorry pal we broke you merc internal door handle, unbelievable) it isn't working now, so I believe those specialists will reduce labour price because of that.

They think charge me for getting gearbox out and re fit it (200£ +, vat).

This please don't do a manul gearbox repairs, so they will send it for a repair / rebuild to "Ace gearbox specialist" ..., so looks like Swadlincote garage not good enough? wierd. Or just rare model of gearbox.

"Ace" will charge for rebuild 650£ whole gearbox, change a coil spring inside (rear gear changing mechanism) for some more durable item, change a bearings as well (cost on luk website 110£ a set), but I have no chance to check it... I won't be able open the gearbox to check it inside
So I keep believe that this is truth, and the "ace" specialist won't just swap a gearbox for another one... With similar numbers 711.653
Will see.
By the way, "ace" give 12 month warranty, that's a bit Impressive.

Also those guys in Swad advice me to change a clutch set, they starting to assure me that this set is very expensive and hard to match it online.
May be they say that coz its no extra cost to fit the clutch as they mentioned before.

So I got the clutch set from local luk representative for 220£ with no clutch cilinder, just two parts set (used Wis/asra to find the part number out) 0252509601

So next week I'll find out how good are they.

Sorry, got a bit spelling mistakes using phone.

Edited text once, system not let me do it second time

 

[HITECH]

Thanks for your detailed discussion about the gearbox.

Complicated now. As I decided to sent it to garage, let them do the job, as get information, that 2122600209 part, shifting mechanism not available in the UK, Germany, Poland, Italy, baltic states, run everywhere.. So there are no brand new spare parts.. Imagine I got stuck with a swapping a fork.. It would be few weeks to spend, with all daily routine... Even with the secondhand gearbox.

In a garage offered to change a clutch at no extra cost. Thinking now

I did advise get a replacement 2nd hand gearbox . It woulda been much simpler than the carryon your experiencing now. Mechanism inside the gearbox isnt availavle. So what will be done is some lathe work and tig welding to repair broken part. There is still the chance of it breaking again as there are a batch of these gearboxes with obvious weak manufacturing problems. i hope all will be fine after all this hassle for you.

 

[Surgi]

I did advise get a replacement 2nd hand gearbox . It woulda been much simpler than the carryon your experiencing now. Mechanism inside the gearbox isnt availavle. So what will be done is some lathe work and tig welding to repair broken part. There is still the chance of it breaking again as there are a batch of these gearboxes with obvious weak manufacturing problems. i hope all will be fine after all this hassle for you.

I seen some offers of those manual gearbox online, UK, Germany, Lithuania, Poland, but or it is delivery expensive or even very old gearbox, looking hardly used. In UK they are expensive due heavy weight delivery, so I won't win a lot if would swap it. Anyway there no new parts available for the repair work apart of bearings.

Savings around 300£ by doing swap myself, 1 ir two weeks busy times, and no warranty at all. Hopefully going to be OK since end of this week.

 

[HITECH]

I seen some offers of those manual gearbox online, UK, Germany, Lithuania, Poland, but or it is delivery expensive or even very old gearbox, looking hardly used. In UK they are expensive due heavy weight delivery, so I won't win a lot if would swap it. Anyway there no new parts available for the repair work apart of bearings.

Savings around 300£ by doing swap myself, 1 ir two weeks busy times, and no warranty at all. Hopefully going to be OK since end of this week.

How is the rebuild going?

 

[Surgi]

How is the rebuild going?

Hi.

It's a bit nightmare and a little hastle

Just collected car yesterday from the garage. Actually it was second time I was there..
Unbelievable but... It is what it is

First time when I received a call from a garage, arrived just after few hours later, payed for a job 1k£, collected a car... Sat in, though "ow, gosh, finally you with me" (mercedes)...
While driving home, I have realised that eco button not lid on, I never use that option to stop start engine on a traffic lights really, but anyway it wasn't lid on as it shoud do.
Get home, connected xentry, there was a fault P0820(11) gear lever position sensor x y issues. Reseted it, though, may be they forgot to reset it but not, after I have resetted an issue message it appears again, so actual problem.

Rung back to the garage, driven back, explained, showed the issue. It was Thursday, they rung to some subcontractor ace gearbox, agreed to take car back for a fix, so I brought car back to garage on Monday. Car was driving OK, but with a fault.

When I left car with the garage, he adviced to change a clutch with no extra cost changed it.

So after driven around 40 miles since I have my car back, the gears changing is a bit In need to add a pressure. Looks like bearings been changed, rear gear come back, but still can feel that little gap between first, second and rear gear... (Imagine if you switch 2nd gear fast, to the first gear, it's feels like it may go in the rear gear position instead of the first gear) That direction route for rear gear... It wasn't like that before. Will see , I'll use it now for a week...

So overall I'm happy that gearbox have been fixed, but not happy about outcome in total.

 

[HITECH]

Hi.

It's a bit nightmare and a little hastle

Just collected car yesterday from the garage. Actually it was second time I was there..
Unbelievable but... It is what it is

First time when I received a call from a garage, arrived just after few hours later, payed for a job 1k£, collected a car... Sat in, though "ow, gosh, finally you with me" (mercedes)...
While driving home, I have realised that eco button not lid on, I never use that option to stop start engine on a traffic lights really, but anyway it wasn't lid on as it shoud do.
Get home, connected xentry, there was a fault P0820(11) gear lever position sensor x y issues. Reseted it, though, may be they forgot to reset it but not, after I have resetted an issue message it appears again, so actual problem.

Rung back to the garage, driven back, explained, showed the issue. It was Thursday, they rung to some subcontractor ace gearbox, agreed to take car back for a fix, so I brought car back to garage on Monday. Car was driving OK, but with a fault.

When I left car with the garage, he adviced to change a clutch with no extra cost changed it.

So after driven around 40 miles since I have my car back, the gears changing is a bit In need to add a pressure. Looks like bearings been changed, rear gear come back, but still can feel that little gap between first, second and rear gear... (Imagine if you switch 2nd gear fast, to the first gear, it's feels like it may go in the rear gear position instead of the first gear) That direction route for rear gear... It wasn't like that before. Will see , I'll use it now for a week...

So overall I'm happy that gearbox have been fixed, but not happy about outcome in total.

What a NIGHTMARE! Like I said the broken shift fork and whatever else is cracked. It can never be repaired back to original spec. Sounds like the whole 2nd gear/reverse gear shaft is damaged as well as the fork. the shaft has all sorts of clips, bearings and diameters. Or else they never changed all the broken gear stick assembly plastics n bearings. (If it was broken) which mine was.
For what your paying you coulda bought 2 second hand working gearboxes. Sounds like you should ask them to foot the bill and fit a 2nd hand gearbox because this issue is gonna carry on and that gearbox will never be right. The knacked ECO system isnt a good sign. You even sure its been your own gearbox stripped down and its not just bn a non eco older type gearbox fitted which would chuck up the ECO faultt aswell. Sorry bud but I DID say get a 2nd hand box, skip a new clutch and be on your way. It was recommended i send my own gearbox. Because the parts ARE NOT AVAILABLE, i forseen the crap you are going thru and I opted for a 2nd hand box. I know its not what you wanna hear but the time, cost and stress with an attempted rebuild really isnt worth it. The engineering company that messaged me about it , as soon as they said once we strip it down we will make a decision on cost of repair. The repair requires 3 parts. Shift fork, shaft and a spring. Them damn things have such small tolerances that its most likely to repair it properly. Ide ask about your gearstick shift change asssmbly tho just incase its all still in bits under the gearstick.

 

[Surgi]

Yeah,
I thought about getting the second had gearbox obviously before send the car to garage, but there was about a same price quote everyehere online including delivery.
I have been cought on the "12 month warranty" from this place...

Of course, I do understand that those parts such like 2122600209 gear shifting mechanism not available anywhere brand new... But Im using a car daily, so it would be a hastle, time wise to sort those things out with no permanent access to garage / some secured place to fix a car.

Unfortunately I do understand that I have payed a bit more... Than it would cost by DIY in a some garage. It's drives, clutch working smoothly, but I have a little consern now about speed... Its may be my imagination only, but there is a possibility that the ace gearbox just got parts from other model gearbox swapped to mine.. Like from 711.656 to mine wich is 711.653.
I think I feel bit loose of power when hitting pedal to metal, haven't drive the merc around 10 days
Maybe forgotten how it feels like. Not sure about it

Will drive around tomorrow, have a look, get a feel of it.

 

[steviejay69]

Hey @Surgi did you get any further with this?

I've read through and this thread is the only one that mentions an issue I'm now tracing. P082011 - Transmission Neutral Position short circuit to ground, was just general circuit error when previously cleared, but it's reappeared. I only hooked up my diagnostic thinking I could clear the service indicator (it was serviced but the interval wasn't reset. It told me it can be done from the steering wheel- done, I digress). So I wondered if you got to the bottom of your issue (gears), but mainly the issue following the repair (ECO not lighting). Mine's intermittent - I get it most times, but it can randomly go out, so it sounds like my error is related.

Car drives fine (clutch is slightly clunky but expected at car age if not replaced), no warning lights and all gears engage, cruise control works, etc. So I'm going to look at very simple things like TCM contacts/cleaning (maybe even TCM substitution) before engaging the mechanic at the next service (probably April).

Cheers if you can.

 

[steviejay69]

Hey @Surgi did you get any further with this?

I've read through and this thread is the only one that mentions an issue I'm now tracing. P082011 - Transmission Neutral Position short circuit to ground, was just general circuit error when previously cleared, but it's reappeared. I only hooked up my diagnostic thinking I could clear the service indicator (it was serviced but the interval wasn't reset. It told me it can be done from the steering wheel- done, I digress). So I wondered if you got to the bottom of your issue (gears), but mainly the issue following the repair (ECO not lighting). Mine's intermittent - I get it most times, but it can randomly go out, so it sounds like my error is related.

Car drives fine (clutch is slightly clunky but expected at car age if not replaced), no warning lights and all gears engage, cruise control works, etc. So I'm going to look at very simple things like TCM contacts/cleaning (maybe even TCM substitution) before engaging the mechanic at the next service (probably April).

Cheers if you can.

Okay maybe anyone else reading can help me out with this. The fuse is present (33, 10A) in the fusebox, but there is no TCM I can see, looking it up it refers to the Auto and the 7G-Tronic transmissions. My car is a manual (OM651.911) but there's nothing in the engine compartment and I don't really have a ramp to inspect the gearbox from under the car (not that I would be able to see the unit if it is housed internally). There is a part number A0005455916 (722.6 Auto or unspecified) and various 722.9 parts (definitely not 7G-Tronic).

So that fuse is in a circuit that's unused on my car? Would have thought it may not have the fuse fitted if it's not functional? Believe me I've really tried Googling around on this one. Is there a place under the dash where a unit (TCM) is fitted? If it is linked to the autobox and affects ECO and cruise then there must be something in my car unless this is an ECU function? TCM & ECU would communicate on CAN? Or maybe I just have a spare fuse

 

[steviejay69]

Okay maybe anyone else reading can help me out with this. The fuse is present (33, 10A) in the fusebox, but there is no TCM I can see, looking it up it refers to the Auto and the 7G-Tronic transmissions. My car is a manual (OM651.911) but there's nothing in the engine compartment and I don't really have a ramp to inspect the gearbox from under the car (not that I would be able to see the unit if it is housed internally). There is a part number A0005455916 (722.6 Auto or unspecified) and various 722.9 parts (definitely not 7G-Tronic).

So that fuse is in a circuit that's unused on my car? Would have thought it may not have the fuse fitted if it's not functional? Believe me I've really tried Googling around on this one. Is there a place under the dash where a unit (TCM) is fitted? If it is linked to the autobox and affects ECO and cruise then there must be something in my car unless this is an ECU function? TCM & ECU would communicate on CAN? Or maybe I just have a spare fuse

Yep, pulled 33 and it had absolutely zero effect on the car as far as I can see. So back to Google in the vain hope someone has a similar issue.