Car Giant - No warranty implied or given

[Mudster]

I had cause to go to Car Giant in North London today...Yes I know, but there were three cars there that had caught my eye.

Two of them had sold this morning, and the third hadn't which I test drove and quite liked.

The discussion turned to warranty...I asked what they were legally obliged to provide.....

I was told:-

Nothing, there is no warranty on second hand vehicles once the manufacturer warranty has expired, I could buy one but once the car left the premisis they were only obliged to comply with my statutory rights. Nothing would be provided in writing and that it was a ll a bit of a "grey area".

I could buy a warranty, but until I'd committed to buying the car and paying a deposit they wouldn't be able to provide me a quote for the cost.

I explained to them as a motor trader they were obliged to provided a warranty on the vehicle, all be it rather limited.

"No we're not - We sell 1000 cars a week and we've never provided any warranty other than third party ones that are bought with the car".

I got up and walked.

Would the motor traders on the forum clarify what is and what isn't a legal requirement?

 

[MOCAŠ]

"Once a trader gives a warranty it becomes an agreement on its own, but it is not your legal right to demand a warranty from the trader."

Consumer Direct - Buying from a dealer

 

[MercFanUk]

I always thought all used cars sold by traders/dealers had to come with a 3 month basic warranty by law?

 

[jasonyw]

Correct I believe from my experience.

If you want warranty, can be purchased if the seller offered it but in this case Car Giant are not willing to.

Most forecourt garages offered warranty, it reflected in the price of the car or just saying to make it attractive to make a sale.

 

[Merco]

I'm really surprised at this! Just goes to show that what you thought you knew you didn't know!

Still, I can't believe they wouldn't even give yu a quote until you'd put a deposit on the car! Having just gone through the buying process both with new and nearly new dealers, I am staggered at some of the appalling levels of customer service that's on offer. Perhaps I shouldn't be - but I find it incredulous that you are there, willing to part with thousands of punds which has taken blood, sweat and tears to earn - and some people think they can treat you like the proverbial! Makes you really appreciate the good ones and the honest, straight talkiing ones. The one I eventually bought off was a nice guy and I worte to his manager letting him know.

I wouldn't go near a dealer that had that attitude to a warranty - especially if they were a big outfit such as that. I don't blame you for walking!

 

[flango]

I've just been into this in some legal detail with SWMBO and her Pal, for selling a few cars we have registed to the Motorsport Company, If I sold them in the Company name then I would be classed as a dealer. The statement from Car Giant is absolutely spot on. As a dealer you have no obligation to supply a waranty but you do have to comply with the Sale and Supply of Goods acts and possibly various other acts depending on circumastances. You are only obliged to maintain the customers statutory rights.

Details below.

Your consumer rights when you buy a vehicle from a dealer

If you bought the vehicle from a dealer, you will have certain rights under consumer law.

A secondhand vehicle must match its description, be fit for its purpose, and be of satisfactory quality. However, the standard for meeting the requirement that the vehicle is of satisfactory quality will be lower because it is secondhand.

A secondhand vehicle should be in reasonable condition and work properly. When deciding whether a secondhand vehicle is in reasonable condition it is important to consider the vehicle’s age and make, the past history of the vehicle and how much you paid for it.

If a secondhand vehicle needs more extensive repairs than seemed necessary at the time it was bought, this does not necessarily mean that the vehicle is not of satisfactory quality. A secondhand vehicle can be of satisfactory quality if it is in a useable condition, even if it is not perfect.
If the vehicle develops a problem soon after you bought it, you may have a right to return the vehicle to the dealer and get your money back. This would probably need to be within about three to four weeks at the most of buying the vehicle. The problem would need to be fairly major, and you would need to take into account the age, mileage and price of the vehicle when deciding whether it is reasonable to take it back.

You must stop using the vehicle at once and contact the dealer. If you traded in a vehicle, you are entitled to have it returned if it is still available, or to have the full value allowed on it, if it has been disposed of. If you have left it too late to claim a refund, or you don't want one, you may be entitled to ask for a repair or replacement. The fault must have been there when you bought the vehicle. If you do agree for a major fault to be repaired and the repair turns out to be unsatisfactory, it's not too late to ask for your money back.

If the dealer won't agree to put the problem right, you can take legal action up to six years from the date you bought the vehicle (five years in Scotland). However, it is probably unrealistic to take legal action for a fault in a secondhand vehicle, especially an older vehicle, once you have been using it for a reasonable length of time.

If you take the vehicle back within six months of buying it, the dealer should accept that there was a problem when the vehicle was sold and offer to repair or replace it. If the dealer doesn't accept that there was a problem when the vehicle was sold, they will have to prove this.

After six months, it will be up to you to prove that there was a major problem with the vehicle when it was sold. You will have to provide evidence of this so it may help to get an independent report which could establish the condition of the vehicle when it was sold. If the dealer agrees to repair the vehicle, the repairs have to be carried out within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to you. The dealer must pay the costs of the repairs. If the repair has taken a long time, you may be able to use a service loan car or claim compensation, for example, for the cost of hiring a vehicle. If the dealer refuses to repair the vehicle, you are entitled to get it repaired elsewhere and claim back the cost from the dealer. If the vehicle can't be repaired or replaced or this is considered too expensive, taking into account the type of fault, you may have the right to get some or all of your money back. You will have to negotiate with the dealer to decide on what would be a reasonable amount. In deciding what is reasonable, you will need to take into account how much use you have had out of the vehicle

 

[jaymanek]

well your statutory rights are a reasonable warranty... so they may not like to admit it but if you are buying a car anything more than a few K, the rule of thumb is 6 months warranty minimum...

A lot of dealers try and push across that no warranty is given so that in the case of a fault the customer doesnt even bother trying to come back...

A family friend of mine went to view a car for £13K in wales.. the dealer tried telling them that they only give 1 month basic engine warranty on all their cars...
I promptly put him right and he put it in writing that he would be supplying the car with 6 months comprehensive warranty.

 

[markjay]

I have bought a number of cars from Car Giant (starting from 1998, when they were still called 'The Great Trade centre'). I am very happy with the process, it is a no-frills service but they do have good cars (if low-spec ones) for very good prices.

It is true that they do not provide any sort of warranty, which is in part why they are cheaper than 'normal' car dealerships.

Having said that, being a business, they are obliged to sell you goods which are of marketable quality and fit for purpose. These are your statuary rights.

So if you did buy a car from them, and the engine went with a big bang and a cloud of smoke on the way home, than you would certainly have a claim. They are big enough to be concerned by a Trading Standards Office investigation.

Again, they are a business, and you are a consumer, so they can not sell you anything 'sold as seen'. Private sellers, however, can do that, as well as auction houses, and any business selling business-to-business (b2b).

In summary it is not true that you have no protection when buying from Car Giant, but it is true that they will provide you only with the minimum come-back required by law. So it would be prudent to purchase a car from them that still has some manufacturer's warranty left, or otherwise get a good mechanical breakdown warranty.

 

[MercFanUk]

How much cover does fit for use give you though? If an engine dies on the way home, that's pretty obvious - but what happens if a part turns out to be well on its way out, but not quite gone? Say a gearbox for example?

 

[flango]

How much cover does fit for use give you though? If an engine dies on the way home, that's pretty obvious - but what happens if a part turns out to be well on its way out, but not quite gone? Say a gearbox for example?

Depends how soon the fault shows itself after the car was purchased, if it was fairly Immediate then you could be entitled to your money back, within 6 months the dealer would have to prove the fault was not there at sale, but any decent dealer would offer a repair within a 6 month timeframe.

 

[Mudster]

It was the aggressive attitude that put me off, if they were like that whilst trying to get me to part with money, what would be the attitude if there was a problem.

Then not providing a warranty figure until I parted with the deposit was the straw that broke the camel's back.

This is all too much of a grey area, and thinking back to the thread where aka$h bought the SL was enough to make me not bother with these people.

I may just have dodged a bullet.

 

[Mudster]

Depends how soon the fault shows itself after the car was purchased, if it was fairly Immediate then you could be entitled to your money back, within 6 months the dealer would have to prove the fault was not there at sale, but any decent dealer would offer a repair within a 6 month timeframe.

Depends...proof...blah blah blah.....

Unless you're prepared to litigate then all this is is quite pointless. It's also all very subjective.

What exactly is fit for purpose?

If the sat nav unit on this car failed entirely after 3 months, what come back do you have? I'd say that's the grey area.

EDIT:- For reference this was a 2007 car with 16,000 miles on the clock.

 

[markjay]

Mudster, all I can say is that I bought so far four cars from them over a period of 12 years, and never had a problem. Three of the cars still had manufacturers' warranty, one did not. I would certainly buy from them again.

If I wanted the convenience and reassurance of a warranty, I would have bought from a dealership ( and paid accordingly).

Ultimately, it is down to you to decide what you want from your second-hand car purchase - but as for myself, I don't expect dealer-warranty with car-supermarket prices...

Hope this helps.

 

[Mudster]

If I wanted the convenience and reassurance of a warranty, I would have bought from a dealership ( and paid accordingly).

This is what I've deceided to do or at least look.

I'm used to buying or contract hiring new cars so all this is an eye opener to me.

When I see the posts on here, especially the Silver Arrow Aka$h bought, the problems on that car that people expected to be covered by "warranty" offered by the dealer as a matter of legal requirement are miiscule and would never cut the mustard if you ever tried to persue any of them.

These "warranties" that comply with consumer rights are so full of holes it's laughable.

 

[MOCAŠ]

As per markjay's post, these guys built their business by offering a trade sales experience to the private buyer; think of it as Ryanair or EasyJet for car buyers. The windscreen price only covers the car, and everything else (apart from a 5-minute test drive) is extra - such as the £91 so-called 'admin fee' you have to pay to cover the paperwork when buying a car.

I went to look at a Smart ForFour there a few years ago when I was changing my C200T, but was put off by the staff attitude, the requirement to fill in a form for everything and the derisory px offer.

It's fine if you know what you're getting into, but not how everyone would want to buy a car.

 

[markjay]

...These "warranties" that comply with consumer rights are so full of holes it's laughable.

Agreed - and under these circumstances, I find Car Giant's approach very reasonable - they actually tell you to assume the worst rather than try and make you believe that somehow your statuary rights will provide some cover... if anything they are being honest about what they sell. And no, I don't work for them...

 

[Mudster]

well your statutory rights are a reasonable warranty... so they may not like to admit it but if you are buying a car anything more than a few K, the rule of thumb is 6 months warranty minimum...

A lot of dealers try and push across that no warranty is given so that in the case of a fault the customer doesnt even bother trying to come back...

A family friend of mine went to view a car for £13K in wales.. the dealer tried telling them that they only give 1 month basic engine warranty on all their cars...
I promptly put him right and he put it in writing that he would be supplying the car with 6 months comprehensive warranty.

The dealer offering to throw in a 6 month comprehensive warranty to get the sale is not the same as admitting he has to comply with minimum legal requirements.

It's the minimum legal requirement that I find vague at best and so open to interpretation that it's barely workable.

 

[flango]

Depends...proof...blah blah blah.....

Unless you're prepared to litigate then all this is is quite pointless. It's also all very subjective.

What exactly is fit for purpose?

If the sat nav unit on this car failed entirely after 3 months, what come back do you have? I'd say that's the grey area.

EDIT:- For reference this was a 2007 car with 16,000 miles on the clock.

Nothing grey about that at all, for the car you reference, if the sat nav failed after 3 months and was factory fit, the seling dealer would be expected to effect a repair within a reasonable time.

If it is not a manufacturers waranty or extended warranty then generally IMHO its not worth the paper it is written on, budget monthly and put the money into a bank account, if you need to repair then its there and ready, if you don't then you have a nice windfall coming back to you, with an aftermarket warranty you pay your money for not a lot of peice of mind and get nothing back.

just my humble opinion of course

 

[Mudster]

Agreed - and under these circumstances, I find Car Giant's approach very reasonable - they actually tell you to assume the worst rather than try and make you believe that somehow your statuary rights will provide some cover... if anything they are being honest about what they sell. And no, I don't work for them...

Don't get me wrong, I've learnt something today.

Reading these forums I'd always thought that a dealer selling a used car outside of manufacturer warranty was liable for quite a lot of the vehicle should anything fail.

I've walked out of that supermarket today thinking if anything went wrong I'd have to sue them as they'd simply deny it was their problem and we have nothing in writing. At that point most people will walk away, I guess that's what they bank on.

As for the dealer having to prove it was fit when it left:-

It worked when you test drove the car and drove it off the lot sir"...that's hard to refute if we're honest.

 

[Mudster]

Nothing grey about that at all, for the car you reference, if the sat nav failed after 3 months and was factory fit, the seling dealer would be expected to effect a repair within a reasonable time.

If it is not a manufacturers waranty or extended warranty then generally IMHO its not worth the paper it is written on, budget monthly and put the money into a bank account, if you need to repair then its there and ready, if you don't then you have a nice windfall coming back to you, with an aftermarket warranty you pay your money for not a lot of peice of mind and get nothing back.

just my humble opinion of course

Ok so lets say the repair is £450...the dealer says, "It was working when you drove out, worked for three months, the failure is just wear and tear and not covered".

I then have no choice but to litigate....the proof requirements are not workable.