Cheap desert car...

[Spinal]

Top gear tonight reignited my search for a car to join the plymouth-banjul challenge... Now, its not a rally, but a nice (almost month-long) drive across the desert....


The rules:

1 Competing cars must cost less than £100.

2 Maximum budget for the vehicle Rally Preparation: £15

3 Once the Rally is underway, there will be no form of formal assistance from the organisers in any way - Teams are ON THEIR OWN.

4 All of vehicles that make the full distance to Banjul must be handed over to the Challenge Control Group to be auctioned under controlled conditions (reported to The Gambian Government) in aid of local Gambian Charities.

5 All vehicles must be LEFT-HAND DRIVE!!

The above rule is necessary because The Gambia is a left-hand-drive country. RHD vehicles are not really welcome in The Gambia. The enormous popularity of this event has meant that we have had to introduce this ruling in order to ensure that the Challenge continues to receive the warm welcome extended by the Government and People of The Gamabia.
RHD cars may not be permitted entry to The Gambia or may be subject to import duties and disposal charges. THEY KNOW WHO WE ARE NOW!!!

Now, £100 is a little unrealistic, so I'm thinking of going twice the budget, so £200... and its two people per team, so £400... and you always need some leeway, so £400-£500ish...

I'm thinking a Lada Niva or a 190e - my concerns are that in the lada I'de have trouble finding spares and in the 190e I would sink...

Anything else you'de recomend for the budget/purpose?

Michele

 

[andy_k]

hmmmm

what did Top Gear class as the winner tonight?

Which car has no coolant to overheat?

Which car has an oil bath air filter which will not clog up with sand and can be emptied/recharged in seconds with any available fluid ?

Which car can you pretty much mend with half a dozen spanners?

Which car has electrics so simple a child could rewire them?

On a tight budget I'd take a beetle every time but I would try and buy it abroad as you won't get a half decent one for less than a grand here - in Germany, a ratty LHD one with more than enough life for what you have planned will probably cost you a couple of hundred Euros

Andy

 

[Sp!ke]

For once I agree with Andy

 

[Spinal]

I was unable to sleep and I thought of this; what if I were to buy a car with an MOT due to expire in Dec '08/Jan '09 (i.e. just after I left the country with the car).

Now, immagine the car had something like a totally corroded wing (or some other reason it would fail an MOT and would be impractical to repair - not related to the engine). This would make the car quite cheap, no?

Or would that be unsafe stupidity?

Strangely enough, I did consider a 2cv! Is the VW beetle-minibus-thing (no clue what its called) worth its name? At 6'2" I don't like the space available in a beetle!

Michele
Michele

 

[Sp!ke]

campervans wont be anywhere near your budget.

Actually, the beetle is quite tardis like. Get a roof rack and you'll have plenty of room for two and all your gear.

On a beetle its 4 bolts to drop the engine out, its £70 for an entire new top end (or was last time I did it). Very sturdy and little to go wrong and parts available everywhere.

 

[Spinal]

campervans wont be anywhere near your budget.

Actually, the beetle is quite tardis like. Get a roof rack and you'll have plenty of room for two and all your gear.

On a beetle its 4 bolts to drop the engine out, its £70 for an entire new top end (or was last time I did it). Very sturdy and little to go wrong and parts available everywhere.

By 2cv I meant a Citroen 2CV - definetly not a campervan! It's alot like a beetle, but I've actually found one or two on ebay .fr and .de

EDIT: Just realised what you meant! VW Campervan! Just saw one on ebay! Ignore my comment

 

[Colin_b]

campervans wont be anywhere near your budget.

Actually, the beetle is quite tardis like. Get a roof rack and you'll have plenty of room for two and all your gear.

On a beetle its 4 bolts to drop the engine out, its £70 for an entire new top end (or was last time I did it). Very sturdy and little to go wrong and parts available everywhere.

Beetles do have one drawback - the engine. Cooling is very marginal, the oil capacity isn't enough for any prolonged hard work, so bearings tend to fail. Also tend to get oil starvation on rough roads!

Suspension is basic, stronng (assuming you avoid the strut type) easy and cheap to work on and modify. The transmission is bulletproof, and the bodyshell, if rust free, is very tough and resliliant, and large chunks can happily be removed should you bend it.

Assuming the engine is decently sorted - properly built for reliability in hot conditions rather than power, it will go anywhere for not a lot of money.

 

[jeremytaylor]

2CV would be a good choice. Very basic electrics/mechanics, thin tyres and light weight are advantages (as the Opel showed last night on TG).

There used to be 2CV 'Raids' (rallys) across Africa in the 1970s and I've got a book by someone who drove from London to somewhere like Pakistan in one.

 

[R129mine]

my choice would be 2cv as well, i vividly remember driving these things to and from Switzerland about 20 years ago, great fun, both in the winter and summer, never breaks (not much to break) and great suspension but not sure how the small tyres would cope with the sand

 

[grober]

WHY NOT BUILD ONE? http://www.marshmail.freeserve.co.uk/africar.html

What you really want is a 2CV Sahara---literally 2cv front ends back to back = 4 wheel drive + 2 engines!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citroën_2CV#Four-wheel_drive

 

[MBManInKen]

thin tyres

I must say I don't know anything about off-road driving, but can you explain why thin tyres would be better for driving on sand?

Just thinking about the physics, surely wider tyres would be better on sand (more contact surface and so less likely to sink into it)?

 

[Colin_b]

Not sure about a 2cv, hasn't got much body strength, which is good for weight, but not so good for strength....

I'd been wondering what to do with the old beetle in my garage!

 

[Sp!ke]

What he says ...

 

[AMGBoy]

hi

i did this trip in 2004 we did it in a audi 100 est with a few mods bull bars and under paneling for the bumpy roads

car cost £220 + all the other bits rough cost £450

we got lots of sponsers and got given lots of parts to do it

we got lots of bits which we gave to the local schools pens paper

we did it for a local charity which we raised £4000

was agreat experience one ill never forget

if anybody has the chance to do it or something like it DO IT

 

[jeremytaylor]

I must say I don't know anything about off-road driving, but can you explain why thin tyres would be better for driving on sand?

Just thinking about the physics, surely wider tyres would be better on sand (more contact surface and so less likely to sink into it)?

To be honest, I'm not sure of the physics myself!

I think the arguement went that the thin tyres cut through the soft sand to something deeper and a bit firmer underneath. I know that the thin 2CV tyres work well in snow (which is a not dis-similar problem). But I think it all depends how extreme you get - I remember on another TG how they would deflate/inflate tyres to maximise grip - but that was on sand dunes. I think for light safari driving the above arguement stands (but I welcome to be corrected).

The simplicity of a 2CV would definitely be a bonus - same applies to a (dreaded) Beetle (cue horror music ... )

 

[MBManInKen]

I think the arguement went that the thin tyres cut through the soft sand to something deeper and a bit firmer underneath.

If you would want to cut deeper into the sand to reach a deeper layer, then I can see why thin tyres would work, they would go deeper.

Whether or not there is actually something with a bit more grip a few inches under the sand I really don't know .

I know that the thin 2CV tyres work well in snow (which is a not dis-similar problem).

Yes, winter tyres should be narrower, although they would also have deeper and wider threads.

But I think it all depends how extreme you get - I remember on another TG how they would deflate/inflate tyres to maximise grip

That would make sense for sand, in that you'd increase the contact surface by deflating the tyres slightly.

But as I said, I know nothing about off road driving, so happy to be educated!

 

[DrNick]

In my time of driving Landrovers in the Sahara, the best way of coping with sand was (if you had normal off road tyres) was to drop them to about 15psi to increase the contact areas and thus decrease the contact pressure. Then it was best to drive at a reasonable speed so the sand didn't get a chance to shift from under you. If you had to stop, then find a small sand dune, drive up it and then stop pointing down it, so there was a chance you could get moving again!

Once you've come off the sand, you have to pump your tyres back up, otherwise the gravel and rocks would shred the tyres.

Sometimes if we were lucky we would have sand tyres which have a straight radial tread, so if they started to slip, they would just spin, and not dig you downwards. If you were good, with much twirling of the steering wheel, you could 'swim' the car across particularly soft bits.
(The battery cover used to make a good jack support if tyres needed cahnging on soft ground!)

 

[Spinal]

Regarding off roading; I grew up in Gambia (yes, where the rally ends ) and still have family in the Italian diplomatic body there.

The first time I ever drove a motorized vehicle (car, motorbike, boat or other) was on the beach in Gambia! As such, I have a bit of experience with off roading (My father still has "my" Toyota pick-up which I'm told is now used to transport goods and and my Z3, which I'm told is in a warehouse since they built speed-bumps!)

I'm leaning heavily on a 2CV; but if I find something MOT'ed until Jan/Feb '08 with solid mecchanics for a cheap price I think I'de just buy it... after all, it wouldn't be a challenge if the car doesn't break

Michele

 

[jeremytaylor]

There used to be 2CV 'Raids' (rallys) across Africa in the 1970s and I've got a book by someone who drove from London to somewhere like Pakistan in one.

The book is:'Travels with a 2CV' by Nicola Earwaker. ISBN 0-7137-2045-X

It is about a trip in 1985 from London to Karachi through Belgium, Germany, Austria, Yugoslavia, Turkey, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, the Emirates and Pakistan.

 

[steeldonkey]

you need a golf with a 2e engine (mk3 2.0 8v gti), its a non interferance engine, and is quite simply unbreakable.

i have been doing my best to ruin one for the last 4 months, sadly i have failed miserably and it seems to be running better than ever.

cheap too