CLS63/E63 Timing Chain Issues (M157)

[zenman63]

The right bank looks easy enough to get at its the left bank thats the problem with the oil filter in the way and all the tubes.
Just need to find someone thats actually done it.

 

[Matt1e]

My timing chain has been now sorted by Prestige Car Service - Horndean......Very Highly recommended.

 

[Alps]

did they change the whole chains of just the tensioners?

Ollie and is team are very good!

 

[RussJ]

I was interested to read this thread as earlier this year I became the proud owner of a 2013 SL63.
Just after I'd bought the car, I heard about this timing chain issue and panicked a bit. I then checked the service bulletin and breathed a sigh of relief as my engine was outside the affected range.
However, when I attended the Hilltop AMG meet someone, I think it may have been Steve M, said that my engine was making the same noise on start up although I couldn't hear anything when sat behind the wheel.
Since then I've got the missus to start the car on several occasions so I can have a listen. It doesn't seem to do anything from a cold start but sometimes will make a noise for 30 secs or so if its been run and then sat for a couple of hours. I wonder if my car missed out on the non-return valve mod or perhaps it's faulty? Can anyone tell how I can get it to reliably demonstrate the noise so I can take it to the Dealer? Fortunately I have two years of AMG warranty so any work should be covered...
Russ

 

[daveenty]

It sounds like the non return valves

Mine did it after standing for a couple of hours though not on every occasion, so awkward to show to someone.

I don't know if it did it from cold as the thing was that loud on cold start (no cats and downpipes) it was impossible to tell.

 

[Kyzoner]

What were the signs of timing chain guide failure? Other than the camshaft sensor? I have a 2012 e63 & the exhaust camshaft sensor has just come on but it misfires also so I’m hoping it’s not the same issue.

So I finally get to pick up my car on Thursday, after it going in for a sensor change on the 9th May... Yep, you heard that right, 2 months and 18 days at the dealer. Granted, about a month of this is due to the dealer being absolute dog****e and taking forever to get to even start work on the car and going back and forth with AMG HQ, but I thought I'd share some info as it may be helpful to other owners experiencing the issue.

So a month or so before this saga, I noticed the car being ever so slightly rougher on idle and on random and rare occasions the right bank would misfire (Error codes would show cylinder 6,7,8 + multiple random misfires detected). As you'd expect, I thought this was due to the plugs and had them changed along with a major service shortly after. The car felt better but not perfect and then started to display 'Camshaft Sensor position error' the day after. I called Mercedes, had the sensor replaced which worked for a day or so before it came back and went straight back to the dealer.

Long story short, this went all the way down the line - having sensor, solenoid and camshaft replaced before determining that the chains had stretched. (Not sure if they should have been determined beforehand - but the classic dealer line is "we have to go down the line to determine what is wrong rather than starting at the deep end" - even though it's kind of common knowledge that the chains are the weak part of this engine).

Anyway, the important part, the chains that have been replaced are a new part from the factory which comes with chain guides and uprated links (the previous part were just chains and used the guides already on the block). Mines all fixed now with no issues and running smoother than ever, but thought I'd give owners and future potential owners a heads up.

The car has 35k on the engine, I've owned it since 8k and it always allowed to warm up, kept under 1.5rpm until temperate reaches 80, serviced regularly, only ran on Vpower and spends most of its life at a 70mph cruise on the motorway down to London and Oxford. So, I guess this could really happen to anyone.

 

[Iamrolling]

Rattly engine on startup, for some time now, so looking at most likely culprit.
I asked MB dealer just for a quote on check valve, and on tensioners, as per the advice for my specific engine number (advice in the WIS Daimler doc), but they refuse to provide a rough quote. They want me to book the car in, and pay for investigation, before quoting.
-Wondering how much the base job would likely be (on top of this, investigation fee)?
-Wondering what could go wrong during installation (either an old part breaking in their hands due to age and/or they spot the wear on (eg. the timing chain) and suggest that 'while they're in there', they MUST/might as well do this extra bit of work?
Essentially trying to work on what I might letting myself in for, taking an older car to main dealer to do some engine work.
This is before any possible conversation on the design fault (don't expect to get anywhere on that, as it wasn't done as recall), and who should pay.
Though this casts main dealer in poor light, it would seem they'd rather the engine completely destroy itself. Every service it's been for, over the years, never any mention of the rattle. Blinkers on, do the service, and change the service consumables, and move on. Main dealer all it's life, yet not one iota of mention verbally or in the records.

 

[ALFAitalia]

How many miles?

 

[Iamrolling]

Around 105k.
Sorry, I should have done that as a 'reply'. @ALFAitalia

 

[ALFAitalia]

I'd be doing the chain too at that mileage. Not worth doing the job twice. Merc cam chains are not known for being the best. I know a bloke from the club who needs a new one in his 213 E43 at just under 60k!

 

[Iamrolling]

I'd be doing the chain too at that mileage. Not worth doing the job twice. Merc cam chains are not known for being the best. I know a bloke from the club who needs a new one in his 213 E43 at just under 60k!

Okay so what's the likely cost to do chains, tensioners, and inlet valves? (whether that's an indy specialist, or main dealer, assuming there are indies within a reasonable distance....where reasonable depends on the likely job cost!)

 

[Cyclone1]

Okay so what's the likely cost to do chains, tensioners, and inlet valves? (whether that's an indy specialist, or main dealer, assuming there are indies within a reasonable distance....where reasonable depends on the likely job cost!)

You are looking around £4k from a good independant specialist.

You can check to see if your chain has stretched using a couple of holes / windows that are used to line up the cam timing chain if and when replaced. Takes less than an hour.

First thing to do though is to check if the engine is running the early type of chain, guides and no check valves. These were the engines M157 in cars from 2011 to early 2013. You can see the type of chain by removing the oil filler cap and checking visually. Other tell tale sign when the chain is stretched is the car throws a P0018 fault (can be 0017 or 0019 also), it does this when the chain timing is slightly out. Sadly many owners have this coded out and sell the car on.

Hope this helps

 

[Cyclone1]

Just read your original message again. If the car does have full main dealer history then it is worth asking the question if the car ever had the check valves installed and / or chain changed. Whilst the issue was never made into a recall, the MD did rectify these issues if an Owner picked up on it.

If they refuse then I’d take the car to a reputable indie and find out what the issue is. Not sure how long you’ve had the car but they can be clattery on start up and some days will sound worse than others (warmer / colder weather for example). An indie will plug in a diagnostic and check for previous and current codes, check what type of chain is fitted and if needed check to see if it’s stretched. From there you can make a decision on what to do.

 

[Iamrolling]

You are looking around £4k from a good independant specialist.

You can check to see if your chain has stretched using a couple of holes / windows that are used to line up the cam timing chain if and when replaced. Takes less than an hour.

First thing to do though is to check if the engine is running the early type of chain, guides and no check valves. These were the engines M157 in cars from 2011 to early 2013. You can see the type of chain by removing the oil filler cap and checking visually. Other tell tale sign when the chain is stretched is the car throws a P0018 fault (can be 0017 or 0019 also), it does this when the chain timing is slightly out. Sadly many owners have this coded out and sell the car on.

Hope this helps

Checking the full dealer history: chains and valves have never been done.
To give a little more vital detail: codes done a year ago, and even with code (P002177, inlet camshaft (bank specific) position differs from value...., and P034600 position of inlet camshaft (bank specific) faulty), everyone said just keep driving her.
This post on another forum link, suggests (and yes, my engine sometimes sounds like his first video), that the exhaust camshaft adjuster will also need replacing.
So, we're looking at your 4k estimate, plus more (and even more from main dealer). At 4k, that's around 66% of the resale value. An accountant would sell this depreciating asset, fast. It would take a MB fan to want to sink this money in the car (as a keeper), when investing this amount is not going to be paid back/returned in raw ££££ of resale value, only in driving smiles

 

[Jukie]

Pardon my ignorance here.....

Is it conceivable that the timing chain could be upgraded on an older M157 without the check valves being upgraded? The chain tensioners too? Though I would imagine, even in my ignorance, that the chain and the tensioners go together, so to speak.