Cold weather and diesels

[crockers]

How cold does it have to get before diesel is affected? I believe it can go waxy at a certain temperature....

 

[st4]

Much lower than you'll experience in the UK.

In scotland in 1995 we had a temp of -25c and my old mans diesel shoguns fuel didn't freeze. In lorries cooler temps are more of an issue where the pipes and tanks are more exposed to the air. I think (I was 10 @ the time) that lorries were okay too.

Its not an issue. However I've noted that my car on cold mornings isn't running as efficiently as when the temp is higher. Its consumption is about 5% worse.

 

[Swiss Toni]

Depends.

Distributers put more of the anti-waxing stuff (you can tell I'm an expert, eh?) in during the winter months. So it depends who you buy it off and whether you filled the car in the summer and then didn't use it....

 

[Sp!ke]

Diesel fuel in the UK is also different to that found in colder parts of europe too.

The S60 sounded very rough (very truck like) on startup last week after sitting for 48 hours in -15 deg conditions. 20 seconds later it sounded fine.

 

[st4]

Depends.

Distributers put more of the anti-waxing stuff (you can tell I'm an expert, eh?) in during the winter months. So it depends who you buy it off and whether you filled the car in the summer and then didn't use it....

Very true, and this applies to petrol fuelled cars where the mix of branched alkanes vs straight chain vs other additives is changed to give the optimum consistancy for combustion.

 

[ringway]

Depends.

Distributers put more of the anti-waxing stuff (you can tell I'm an expert, eh?) in during the winter months. So it depends who you buy it off and whether you filled the car in the summer and then didn't use it....

In the fuel strike of 2000? we ran clean out of diesel and so did all the fuel stations, so, indesperation we ran our old LDV box van on PARAFFIN!

AFTER we had done this someone told us we should have mixed a little oil in with the paraffin to lubricate the works!

We did however get away with it (only used for a short period) and the van was in use for a long time after that.

 

[st4]

In the fuel strike of 2000? we ran clean out of diesel and so did all the fuel stations, so, indesperation we ran our old LDV box van on PARAFFIN!

AFTER we had done this someone told us we should have mixed a little oil in with the paraffin to lubricate the works!

We did however get away with it (only used for a short period) and the van was in use for a long time after that.

Parrafin, IIRC, is what is known as Kerosene, which is jet fuel. Petrol based fuels tend to be 8 carbon atoms per molecule, keronsene IIRC in the 10-14 C atoms range, and diesel 18 or so. I would have thought off the top of my head that parrafin and petrol (assume octane) were more similar in viscosity than diesel vs. parrafin. In short I am surprised that it worked okay without a viscous addative.

 

[Mudster]

I'd not used the Saab for about a week over Christmas/New year. Started on the button on Monday morning but sounded like a bag of spanners for the first 15 minutes. Fine after that.

My it does take a long time to warm up though......

 

[A210AMG]

Anyone who watches Ice road Truckers (new series starts soon) don't they have almost -50 and their trucks still start.

 

[ringway]

Parrafin, IIRC, is what is known as Kerosene, which is jet fuel. Petrol based fuels tend to be 8 carbon atoms per molecule, keronsene IIRC in the 10-14 C atoms range, and diesel 18 or so. I would have thought off the top of my head that parrafin and petrol (assume octane) were more similar in viscosity than diesel vs. parrafin. In short I am surprised that it worked okay without a viscous addative.

We got the idea from our Kew powerwash steam cleaners.
They ran on paraffin when inside the workshop to minimise polution.

I'd gone on holiday in may car and deliberately left the van low on fuel in case it was stolen The fuel strike started whilst we were on Anglesey and by the time we'd returned had no petrol in the car

We didn't use the paraffin for long in the van, perhaps 50-60 miles over 2 days but it was a chance we took in desperation (she was an old bird) and it paid off

When we sold the van (our letters were left on it) for a long time people would say "saw your old van today whizzing around town"

 

[coupe deville]

In the fuel strike of 2000? we ran clean out of diesel and so did all the fuel stations, so, indesperation we ran our old LDV box van on PARAFFIN!

AFTER we had done this someone told us we should have mixed a little oil in with the paraffin to lubricate the works!

We did however get away with it (only used for a short period) and the van was in use for a long time after that.

farmer next door to us is retired and he has 2 barns full of vintage tractors. his son visits every week and they get 3 or 4 out and run them round the yard. some of the older ones have to be started on paraffin and some started with an explosive charge. he's 83 years old and when I had a gardening firm round to cut some trees down and chip em up the tractor he was using to drive the chipper broke down [engine was running but power take-off and gears weren't]. the owner of the firm was scratching his head as we all looked at this knackered tractor. old man next door pops his head over fence, oh thats a common fault on them he says, and comes round with a crowbar,opens up an inspection hatch and levers some cog wheels and we hear a clunk and hey presto fixed

 

[Dieselman]

Commercial Diesel generally shouldn't suffer any issues with waxing as we just don't go cold enough in the UK and additives are added to help, which is one reason why economy suffers as the fuel is less dense.

The main problem with diesel in Winter never has been waxing but water in the fuel freezing. Always buy fuel from stations with a high turnover and underground tanks as condensation in the tanks is less of an issue then.

Diesels can run on parrafin but produce less energy and as stated there is a lubrication issue for the fuel pump and injectors. Parrafin is added as an anti waxing agent.

The diesel supplied makes very little difference to the sound on cold start, that's due to the coldness of the engine causing imperfect detonation of fuel.

 

[jonnyboy]

The S60 sounded very rough (very truck like) on startup last week after sitting for 48 hours in -15 deg conditions. 20 seconds later it sounded fine.

Hi there, new poster here and spotted this comment. Interesting as we started our two vans for the first time since before Xmas yesterday. The 51 plate Cabstar (3.0td) was as normal (although can you believe the gear linkages had frozen solid?!?!?!), but the 04 Citroen Relay 2.8hdi with similar 45k mileage was as rough as a badgers backside for the first twenty minutes or so.........weird.....as i thought the Citroen was more "modern".....?

Anyway, thats enough about non-MB's, don't want to get banned lolololololol

 

[smiddyboy1]

IIRC there was a fuel suppliers near Glasgow who were procecuted a few years ago for running their entire fleet of cars on Kerosene, I think it came about after a few were stopped on the road and the police / vosa decided a visit was in order.
After testing all the fuel in the cars tanks it was discovered to be 100% Kerosene, so they must have been getting away with it for some time.... The excuse they used was.... the guy who fills all the cars must have been drawing from the wrong pump in the yard.
I''ve got a name in my head but dont want to mention it incase its wrong, but a quick google search will show it, too late to check tonight....

 

[W210 Fan]

Anyone who watches Ice road Truckers (new series starts soon) don't they have almost -50 and their trucks still start.

like military vehicles designed for cold weather I suspect they have heated fuel tanks and insulated fuel lines ready for it,

 

[Dieselman]

like military vehicles designed for cold weather I suspect they have heated fuel tanks and insulated fuel lines ready for it,

I'm always amazed at how badly prepared these mainly old lorries are.

They appear to run them on a shoestring, which is why they break down a lot.

 

[ringway]

farmer next door to us is retired and he has 2 barns full of vintage tractors. his son visits every week and they get 3 or 4 out and run them round the yard. some of the older ones have to be started on paraffin and some started with an explosive charge. he's 83 years old and when I had a gardening firm round to cut some trees down and chip em up the tractor he was using to drive the chipper broke down [engine was running but power take-off and gears weren't]. the owner of the firm was scratching his head as we all looked at this knackered tractor. old man next door pops his head over fence, oh thats a common fault on them he says, and comes round with a crowbar,opens up an inspection hatch and levers some cog wheels and we hear a clunk and hey presto fixed

IIRC My old 2.5 TD Granada estate drivers manual recommended adding a small percentage of paraffin to the tank in extreme cold conditions.

 

[Uberwagon]

In Canada they have sockets near supermarkets you plug your truck into. Which will have a block heater and possibly fuel, sump heaters.

Someone I know also when it's really cold wont turn the engine off and leaves it idling all night, this is a Hilux.

The trucks will probably have diesel fueled heaters for the water and this will be passed through the oil and diesel tanks.

In Mongolia we had the diesel turn into a jelly type substance and cause problems, this was only with a few fuel deliveries so presume the additive mix was wrong on these.

if it's cold i'll normally run in a lower gear for a bit longer to get some heat into the engine. Luckily the Merc is showing at least 60°C water temp in less than a mile in all weathers.

My diesel Golf was awful in getting warm but didn't really sound any different in freezing or warm temps.

Dave!

 

[maddog]

In Canada they have sockets near supermarkets you plug your truck into. Which will have a block heater and possibly fuel, sump heaters.

Someone I know also when it's really cold wont turn the engine off and leaves it idling all night, this is a Hilux.

The trucks will probably have diesel fueled heaters for the water and this will be passed through the oil and diesel tanks.

In Mongolia we had the diesel turn into a jelly type substance and cause problems, this was only with a few fuel deliveries so presume the additive mix was wrong on these.

if it's cold i'll normally run in a lower gear for a bit longer to get some heat into the engine. Luckily the Merc is showing at least 60°C water temp in less than a mile in all weathers.

My diesel Golf was awful in getting warm but didn't really sound any different in freezing or warm temps.

Dave!

yes sump heaters , cab heaters and electric blankets around the battery but no fuel heaters

If its really cold and you cant plug in the vehicle you need to leaving it running , i switched off a bus once for 20 minutes and the start motor froze to the flywheel !!

I spent a year living in Northern Cananda and although we had a few diesels they were uk vehicles brought over and the same spec as anything else no fuel heaters or heated fuel lines in fact i've never seen a military vehicle with such things

Of course when it gets really cold even petrols wont burn properly as the fuel has trouble atomising

 

[Biscuit]

i have a memory of some documentary or other where the truck drivers were lighting fires under their trucks to warm them up
might have been Russia ...... or Scotland