Considering Classic Merc

[Gillsfan]

Hello Everybody

I was on here I while back when I had a Vito camper project. Well now I'm considering selling my Reliant Scimitar in favour of a classic Merc. I'd love some advice, I'm thinking of a W123 or a 190e. I'd like something with aircon and ideally leather seats, how much of a unicorn am I looking for. I'm not set on those 2, I'm after something not to big that I can use daily. Open to suggestions and/or any advice.

 

[Gillsfan]

Hello Everybody

I was on here I while back when I had a Vito camper project. Well now I'm considering selling my Reliant Scimitar in favour of a classic Merc. I'd love some advice, I'm thinking of a W123 or a 190e. I'd like something with aircon and ideally leather seats, how much of a unicorn am I looking for. I'm not set on those 2, I'm after something not to big that I can use daily. Open to suggestions and/or any advice.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Plenty out there to be found.

How big’s your budget and what’s your relationship with Spanners and Indies?

 

[Smiley]

Not many 190s and 123s with a/c. Not many 190s with leather either. Not quite a unicorn but it will take some finding and be prepared to pay a "full" price. Buy the right one and it will be money invested, not spent.

 

[alabbasi]

If you don't mind left hand drive, you can get a rust free 190E or W123 with both leather and air conditioning (climate control for that matter) for not a lot. W123's are mostly diesel here and are climbing in price, W201's are still pretty inexpensive. This one has tex instead of leather but if it's lived in North Texas all its life. It would not have a spot of rust on it.

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Here's a rougher W123 240D, also with Tex but will have a/c and be totally rust free if it's lived here. Not as clean but I bet it will still go for another 300k miles.

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[Darrell]

If you don't mind left hand drive, you can get a rust free 190E or W123 with both leather and air conditioning (climate control for that matter) for not a lot. W123's are mostly diesel here and are climbing in price, W201's are still pretty inexpensive. This one has tex instead of leather but if it's lived in North Texas all its life. It would not have a spot of rust on it.

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Here's a rougher W123 240D, also with Tex but will have a/c and be totally rust free if it's lived here. Not as clean but I bet it will still go for another 300k miles.

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How much would shipping, import duties and any other costs be?

 

[grober]

Whatever you buy get a petrol car with fuel injection. Carburetted and diesel [pre-turbo] cars are under powered by today's standards. The M102 engined cars became more reliable after 1989 when single timing chains were replaced with double ones.

 

[alabbasi]

How much would shipping, import duties and any other costs be?

No idea what import duties are because that's a UK thing. I assume there's an import tax and VAT but anyone who's bought a car in from any other country would tell you.

Shipping is usually around $1000 for RORO shipping for somewhere like Houston to South Hampton. This is port to port. You'll have to figure out how to get it the port of Houston and out of the port of South Hampton.

 

[Darrell]

No idea what import duties are because that's a UK thing. I assume there's an import tax and VAT but anyone who's bought a car in from any other country would tell you.

Shipping is usually around $1000 for RORO shipping for somewhere like Houston to South Hampton. This is port to port. You'll have to figure out how to get it the port of Houston and out of the port of South Hampton.

Cheers.
Im just thinking that the costs would bring the car up to what you’d pay in the U.K. anyway.

Back in the 80’s it was popular to bring American metal to the U.K. Once all the costs were factored the price was pretty much the same. The only advantages were that you got a muscle car with no rust.

Bringing over a lhd Merc 190e is very different to a 1960s Mustang.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Cheers.
Im just thinking that the costs would bring the car up to what you’d pay in the U.K. anyway.

Exactly. It works out OK when importing great American cars, but Mercs are too rare, and a bit overpriced, in the States for it to be economic.

The more natural import opportunity would be to import a RHD Mercedes from Japan, where cars do low mileage, are well kept, and avoid damp conditions. That said, it's a bit of a faff, with problems in conversion to UK regs and issues on subsequent resale.

 

[alabbasi]

Exactly. It works out OK when importing great American cars, but Mercs are too rare, and a bit overpriced, in the States for it to be economic.

The more natural import opportunity would be to import a RHD Mercedes from Japan, where cars do low mileage, are well kept, and avoid damp conditions. That said, it's a bit of a faff, with problems in conversion to UK regs and issues on subsequent resale.

Interestingly enough, I've sold a number of cars to overseas buyers. Jaguar XJS Convertible went to Germany, a Mercedes Benz W108 280SEL went to Spain, MK2 Jag went to Finland and a Mercedes Benz 450SEL 6.9 went to Dubai. I think that the biggest attraction for US cars is the lack of rust and the options. Most UK 80's and 90's MB's were sold to fleet buyers and with MB, they were only optioned with power steering and central locking. You didn't even get a radio as standard. Rarely was a/c an option and if you were lucky, you'd get electric front windows which was a thing. By contrast, US spec European cars were decked out with every possible option.

Cheers.
Im just thinking that the costs would bring the car up to what you’d pay in the U.K. anyway.

Back in the 80’s it was popular to bring American metal to the U.K. Once all the costs were factored the price was pretty much the same. The only advantages were that you got a muscle car with no rust.

Bringing over a lhd Merc 190e is very different to a 1960s Mustang.

It's not the money you pay it's the money you save. I can get under a 50 year old car that's lived in Texas all its life and every nut and bolt, every steel brake line would look like it was put on yesterday. UK cars might have an outward appearance of rust free because they've had the sills, door bottoms and wheel arches touched over a few times. They won't be rust free. If I was to move back to London or establish a second residence there (something that I've been thinking about since my parents are getting on), I'd buy a 1981 Mercedes Benz 300CD. The diesel coupes were only available in for the US market and with a tune of the injection pump, they can be made to move pretty quick. Then I'd become very good friends with the local chip shop owner.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Interestingly enough, I've sold a number of cars to overseas buyers. Jaguar XJS Convertible went to Germany, a Mercedes Benz W108 280SEL went to Spain, MK2 Jag went to Finland and a Mercedes Benz 450SEL 6.9 went to Dubai. I think that the biggest attraction for US cars is the lack of rust and the options. Most UK 80's and 90's MB's were sold to fleet buyers and with MB, they were only optioned with power steering and central locking. You didn't even get a radio as standard. Rarely was a/c an option and if you were lucky, you'd get electric front windows which was a thing. By contrast, US spec European cars were decked out with every possible option.



It's not the money you pay it's the money you save. I can get under a 50 year old car that's lived in Texas all its life and every nut and bolt, every steel brake line would look like it was put on yesterday. UK cars might have an outward appearance of rust free because they've had the sills, door bottoms and wheel arches touched over a few times. They won't be rust free. If I was to move back to London or establish a second residence there (something that I've been thinking about since my parents are getting on), I'd buy a 1981 Mercedes Benz 300CD. The diesel coupes were only available in for the US market and with a tune of the injection pump, they can be made to move pretty quick. Then I'd become very good friends with the local chip shop owner.

Understood ! LHD US cars work for Europe.

For RHD drivers in the UK, a rust free RHD car from Japan is more attractive, even if you have to pay the import fees, taxes and change the odometer, lights and various bit n pieces. Ending up with a car with an unreadable Japanese history.

 

[Darrell]

Understood ! LHD US cars work for Europe.

For RHD drivers in the UK, a rust free RHD car from Japan is more attractive, even if you have to pay the import fees, taxes and change the odometer, lights and various bit n pieces. Ending up with a car with an unreadable Japanese history.

I’ve seen loads of 60’s British sports cars imported back into the U.K. over the years. I’m thinking E Types, Aston’s and TR’s followed plenty of Italian exotica along with Porsches and ultra rare Mercs but a W201 or W123?? Nah.

 

[alabbasi]

Mercs but a W201 or W123?? Nah.

I get it. when I think Classic Mercedes, my cut off is typically the W108/W115/W116 models, and maybe the R107 because they ran for such a long time and are now getting exported out of the US in large numbers and repatriated to Europe.

I don't consider a W123 as a classic Mercedes Benz because I never considered them as that special. People younger than me might however. So, while they may not be valuable to you, they would be to someone else and likely more so in the future when the numbers dwindle away.

 

[Darrell]

B

I get it. when I think Classic Mercedes, my cut off is typically the W108/W115/W116 models, and maybe the R107 because they ran for such a long time and are now getting exported out of the US in large numbers and repatriated to Europe.

I don't consider a W123 as a classic Mercedes Benz because I never considered them as that special. People younger than me might however. So, while they may not be valuable to you, they would be to someone else and likely more so in the future when the numbers dwindle away.

I think their time will come, especially the coupe.

 

[Gillsfan]

Thank you for your replies, sorry it taken me a while to respond for some reason I wasn't getting notifications.


Anyway, I think I muddied the water by suggesting model numbers. So I'll try and lay out my thinking and respond to some of your replies.

I'm good with spanners, I spent 20 years as an aircraft engineer and have always maintained my own cars, previous classics are several Minis and my current Reliant Scimitar. My limitation is that I'm not good at body work in terms of welding or paint.

I'm not keen on a left-hand drive, only because I live in a rural area and having driven a MK1 Mustang around, it just doesn't work on country roads.

I'm not set on a particular model. What I'd like is something to drive daily all year round, which is why I’d like A/C. I'd like Leather seats as a preference, not a must and I can always fit some if some become available. Model wise I'd like a petrol ideally manual with reasonable handling. That's to say I’m not looking for a sports car, it’s just that I had a Mk3 Granada 20 years ago and it was like driving a jelly, it rolled at the slightest hint of a corner.

My budget isn't set but likely to be around £5000 and my thinking was 80's or 90's car. Not a classic in everyone’s mind but each to their own.


I’m open to suggestions and nothing is off the table.

 

[ChrisHGTV]

Cheers.
Im just thinking that the costs would bring the car up to what you’d pay in the U.K. anyway.

Back in the 80’s it was popular to bring American metal to the U.K. Once all the costs were factored the price was pretty much the same. The only advantages were that you got a muscle car with no rust.

Bringing over a lhd Merc 190e is very different to a 1960s Mustang.

I seem to remember wasn't there a change in the tax rules though in the '90's? Whereas originally you paid tax/duty on what you paid for the car, then it was changed so you were liable for the tax/duty of what the car was worth in the UK? (which was a lot more). I was quite into "Street Machine" magazine at the time and seem to remember an article on it.

 

[Darrell]

I seem to remember wasn't there a change in the tax rules though in the '90's? Whereas originally you paid tax/duty on what you paid for the car, then it was changed so you were liable for the tax/duty of what the car was worth in the UK? (which was a lot more). I was quite into "Street Machine" magazine at the time and seem to remember an article on it.

So basically, from the 90’s the only benefit of bringing a car over from the States was that it will be rust free but only if it’s from a dry state?

I used to read Street Machine in the mid 80’s.

 

[alabbasi]

My budget isn't set but likely to be around £5000 and my thinking was 80's or 90's car. Not a classic in everyone’s mind but each to their own.

You're going to need to learn how to do body work if you're going to want to maintain your own car.

If you're looking for less rust, early 90's are probably the best years in that range as MB started using water based paint in the late 90's and before they figured out that the body needed to be sealed. You probably won't get air conditioning. If you're not against importing a vehicle, consider getting one from South Africa which will be rust free and likely have a/c.