Crabbing - Is it down to the tyres?

[E55BOF]

The car is a 2010 E-class convertible (A207). I'm occasionally getting a distinct clunk from the front end, the tyre on the inside of the turn, when reversing on full lock, which I do every time I turn in to my drive. I've never had it with my usual (for several years) Goodyear Eagle F1s on my other cars, but the A207 is on Contisports, which I don't recall having before, and the weather is pretty cold. Is this the crabbing I've seen referred to on here from time to time?

 

[st13phil]

Is this the crabbing I've seen referred to on here from time to time?

Yes, in a mild form.

FWIW, Angie’s SLK55 on Conti Sport 5Ps does it in cold weather and when I had my E63s they did it in cold weather on PZeros, Eagle F1s and Conti Sport 5Ps. The only tyre they didn’t do it on in cold weather was Michelin PA4 winters.

 

[Will]

Could be worth checking the front suspension too, worn bushes or joints could potentially give similar symptoms when reversing with lock also.

 

[E55BOF]

I've never had a car that did this before. The car feels absolutely fine to drive - no sloppiness or looseness in the steering, no bumps or clonks, no misbehaviour at any time except when reversing slowly and turning on full lock - and there's no doubt it is the wheel on the inside of the turn that is doing it.

It's going in to Terry Gates on Wednesday for a good once-over, paying particular attention to the rear subframe, but if there's anything amiss anywhere he should find it.

 

[baxlin]

I thought crabbing was when the rear wheels aren’t directly following the front wheels when driving forward - ie the car is travelling slightly sideways - like a crab.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Crabbing is an endless form of annoyance to GLC drivers. I “think,” but am not certain, that their issue was something to do with larger rims on RHD vehicles. MB’s line was “whatever.”

Are they large rims on your A207 ?

 

[Will]

Crabbing is an endless form of annoyance to GLC drivers. I “think,” but am not certain, that their issue was something to do with larger rims on RHD vehicles. MB’s line was “whatever.”

Are they large rims on your A207 ?

I think ‘crabbing’ was more of an issue with some of the early 4matics when manoeuvring but you don’t hear much about it now (considering how many there are, it can’t be a huge problem)

IIRC the car Dennis has just bought has done a fair few miles, so there’s a good chance the bushes on the LCAs will be worn/split unless it’s had a suspension refresh - cars spend 99% of their time driving forwards, it’s a different set of forces when reversing and worn bushes and joints can make things move to slightly different positions when they’re pulled in the other direction.

Might be worth an alignment check too

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I think ‘crabbing’ was more of an issue with some of the early 4matics when manoeuvring but you don’t hear much about it now (considering how many there are, it can’t be a huge problem)

IIRC the car Dennis has just bought has done a fair few miles, so there’s a good chance the bushes on the LCAs will be worn/split unless it’s had a suspension refresh - cars spend 99% of their time driving forwards, it’s a different set of forces when reversing and worn bushes and joints can make things move to slightly different positions when they’re pulled in the other direction.

Might be worth an alignment check too

Agreed. And I’d be heading to a big tyre shack with the best alignment kit for that, like Micheldever Tyre, rather than the usual generalist / MB specialist.

 

[E55BOF]

18" rims. I'll see what Terry finds on Wednesday.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Very possibly tyre skip, it’s the season for it. What’s the date stamp in the tyres and what’s the tread depth? The older the tyres, and the lower the tread depth, the more likely it is to skip.

As Will suggests, it could also be down to wear and tear, so a through check at Wayne Gates is a wise move.

 

[markjay]

It's a W204.... check hydrobushes, drop links, and top strut mount rubber bush and bearing .

I replaced the first tree as per MB WIS, in my case it was the third (top strut mount rubber bushes) - the bearing was fine.

 

[markjay]

See also:

Thread 'W204 Front Hydro Bushing'

May 7, 2017

On several websites (e.g. Problems and recalls: Mercedes-Benz W204 C-Class Saloon (2007-11) | UK Car Reviews and Buyers Guide, Images, Videos, Recalls, Faults and Problems) it says that:

'Mercedes-Benz W204 C-Class: other problems and faults

Knocking noises from the engine bay during low speed manoeuvres such as parking may be due to problems with the hydro bushings; improved bushings were subsequently released.'

Can anyone shed more light on this? Perhaps from WIS? My 2013 W204 seems to be suffering from this, just wondering if this is supposed to affect late cars as well, and...

• markjay
• bushing hydro w204
• Replies: 72
• Forum: Wheels, Tyres, Brakes & Suspension

 

[markjay]

...a through check at Wayne Gates is a wise move.

Terry fixed it on my car - he replaced the drop links and the top struts mount rubber bushes.

Tony Bones replaced the hydrobushes beforehand, and they were in a bad shape and needed doing anyway, but that didn't cure it on my car.

 

[SpikyMikey]

Very possibly tyre skip, it’s the season for it. What’s the date stamp in the tyres and what’s the tread depth? The older the tyres, and the lower the tread depth, the more likely it is to skip.

As Will suggests, it could also be down to wear and tear, so a through check at Wayne Gates is a wise move.

I have to back into our drive on full RH lock. When the weather is cold and the road greasy, I've noticed the NSF tyre can give a little skip. I've put it down to the camber change in the steering geometry and the fact that runflat Bridgestones have next to no sidewall 'give'.

 

[markjay]

The issue that the OP describes isn't crabbing - as per my previous post above, its a common issue on the W204 (which the A207 is based on).

Regarding the crabbing issue... the way I would put it, is that it's a suspension design issue stemming from the conversion from RHD to LHD, and it can be bypassed by fitting a different type of tyres. But I don't think that it's correct to say that it's a 'tyre issue'.

 

[E55BOF]

It's a W204.... check hydrobushes, drop links, and top strut mount rubber bush and bearing .

I replaced the first tree as per MB WIS, in my case it was the third (top strut mount rubber bushes) - the bearing was fine.

After doing some reading, and doing a little full-lock low speed driving on my local Tesco car park this evening, I think you're right.

Are the hydrobushes fluid-filled? If not, do you know why they are called that, and not simply bushes?

 

[markjay]

After doing some reading, and doing a little full-lock low speed driving on my local Tesco car park this evening, I think you're right.

Are the hydrobushes fluid-filled? If not, do you know why they are called that, and not simply bushes?

Yes, they are filled with oil. Which sometimes leaks out.

And, while replacing the hydrobushes is the first port of call, in my case it didn't fix the issue. As per my previous post, replacing the top strut mount rubber bush fixed it.

Also, if replacing the hydrobushes, don't be tempted to replace only the bushes themselves - instead, replace the entire control arm, complete with the hydrobush on one end and ball joint on the other.

 

[OneForTheRoad]

Crabbing is more to do with four wheel drive and the ' Akerman effect ' ... Anything 4 matic . Yes it still exists ... Yes it's still mentioned even today , the glc forum is filled with furious American owners in glc43's on 21 inch rims . It sounds like your being rapidly hit with a sledge hammer when on full lock slow turns . .

 

[ALFAitalia]

The alignment is spot on with our A Class.....but the skipping is terrible on sharp turns on shiny surfaces like multi storeys. But since that, and reversing off the drive, is the only time it's noticeable it's no biggy. Does make you sound like a boy racer in an echo prone car park though! All down to the Acherman effect and the price you pay for good steering. The ALFA Giulia has some of the best feel to the steering of any car...far better than any German car I've driven.... its also notorious on the forums for loud tyre noises in slow sharp turns....a price worth paying imo. Due to the issue the later ones had geometry changes.....it greatly reduced the noise....but also lost a little steering feel.

 

[E55BOF]

I'll see what Terry thinks of mine. It drives fine, though the engine is a little more audible in the cabin than on the CLK, so if it would pass an MoT, I'll leave it alone for the present; the MoT is due in May anyway.