Drink-drive limit to be halved.

[grober]

According to the BBC the 50mg/100ml applies in several European countries, including France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Spain. Some of the countries have variations, with newly-qualified drivers in Spain having a lower limit.

 

[st13phil]

For a given amount of police enforcement resource, which would save more lives - clamping down on phone use or cutting the limit further?

The North Report suggests a range of 43 to 168 lies saved annually in the UK as a result of reducing the current limit from 80 mg/100 ml to 50 mg/100 ml. Bearing in mind that it's unusual to see traf-pol in most parts of the country now, I can only assume that much of the benefit is expected to come from the deterrent effect - but it's hard to see where the deterrent is if the chances of being caught are low.

Compare that with the number of deaths caused by HAI's (Hospital Acquired Infections) which is around 5,000 a year, plus a further 15,000 a year in which an HAI is a contributing factor in the death, I fancy we are barking up the wrong tree if the objective is to save the most lives for the least cost and effort.

 

[st13phil]

According to the BBC the 50mg/100ml applies in several European countries, including France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Spain. Some of the countries have variations, with newly-qualified drivers in Spain having a lower limit.

True, but the big difference is that for a first offence (unless substantially over the limit) in most of those countries the punishment is a fine and points on the licence, not mandatory disqualification.

 

[finisterre]

For those that think 'a couple' of deaths a year are acceptable to allow your 'freedom' to drink alcohol and drive, and I cant believe you said it, just remember comment when you get the knock to tell you your family member had died....but then what are the odds eh, so much easier to make such comments when you dont have to deal with it.

That would be me.

I am sorry that people have to deliver such news and I wouldn't want to do it. That doesn't mean that we should wrap ourselves and everybody else in cotton wool.

Risk is more complicated than 'drive safe'. Try driving somewhere without your seatbelt on. You drive with much more care. Or cycle helmets, drivers give a cyclist not wearing a helmet more room, they calculate vulnerability into their behaviour on the road.

Someone who has drunk two pints will take more care than someone who is confident that their reaction times are hunkydory. And when you come down to it, driving anywhere near your reaction limits is foolish. Four pints is too much, I am not arguing for drunk driving, I am merely keen to see rational restrictions on personal freedom.

UK roads are very safe. Only a small number are killed on the roads, if we lost twenty times as many we would still be safer than driving in Iraq, Iran or Afghanistan. All places where alcohol is rarely indulged.

Being careful is what matters.

 

[clever dicky]

Well I too am shocked at some comments.
Clearly some selfish people here/ Of course 'banning' alcohol would seem impossible in our society but don't believe its not possible. Just because our wayward lax and hypocritical GovTs have done very nicely from the revenue's. But sadly its just our culture and a downward spiral, I'm afraid to say. Not because people do drink, but just because now its become so 'normal' and indemic with our culture.

And those that believe a few deaths a year is acceptable, well ?? Probably without any family or loved ones to even consider losing them through a drunk driver.
Of course there are risks in all walks of life, and yes you could easily die from someone playing with a sat nav to picking there nose behind a wheel.
But put a selfish self-centred arrogant person behind the wheel after a few drinks(because that's what anyone who drives a car after taking any drug is) and its 'when' not if someone will die.

And for those that dont know or have yet to deal with someone alcohol dependant
You can tell they have 'crossed the line' when they become overtly aggressive for any trivial excuse, they will find ANY excuse to have a drink. And are very defensive for the right to. Often the phrase 'it's normal, acceptable, everyone does it' will be made to justify having a drink. What ever day of the week or reason, a drink MUST be had at some time. Although some can go without for a week or even a fortnight. All manor of excuses will prompt it. And if they cant have it woe betide anyone in their way. Of course they will suffer neglect, ultimately financial loss, usually following losing a job, and then their home and family. And of course the longer a person (enabler) partner/wife/ mother continues paying / supporting or covering up the damage caused, the longer and worse it gets.
Of course its quite normal - but why ?

Its not the old tramp with a bottle in a brown paper bag anymore that's the alcoholic or alcohol dependant. It's the respectable guy / gal, queuing in onestop at 8.30am buying a four pack or bottle of wine or cider with the morning paper. Have a look next time your in there. I used to drink, sometimes a lot and in (many) days gone by I actually rode a motorbike while absolutely plastered. I have absolutely no idea how, and thankfully without ever an incident. But I don't anymore, and that's after 'other' experiences I've had I now wouldnt ever want to. I've just seen what alcohol dependency does to people. And more to the point I dont need to. For many years now I found I dont have the insecurities that I had that I felt the need to get drunk or even have a drink when going out. I have been dancing, clubbing, bbq's have many friends, have a damn good laugh and when Im in a pub or restaurant mostly, for a meal I have one of my five a day in liquid form or I take great pleasure asking for a cup of tea. Why not. I honestly dont 'need' to drink anymore and dont feel I need to or feel pressured to.

Of course if I'm truthful, the biggest 'problem' I face sitting in a british pub and not being drunk is the boredom when everyone else is!
But then I just think of vast 'tax' Im no longer handing over and often im more relaxed, happy and enjoy myself than my drunk mates.
Of course the down side is Im the one always driving, but then at least I know it's one less drink driver on the roads.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Clever Dicky,

Clearly alcohol has played a big part in your life for whatever reasons, but do you really think that by banning it you would eradicate all of the problems that you mention?

I lost a very good friend of mine last year at the age of 31 due to alcohol dependency and in the final month leading up to his death I think he knew what was going to happen to him.

Would I advocate making alcohol illegal? Not a chance in hell; my friend, as well as all people dependant on a drug, knew that what he was doing would probably kill him, yer he continued to.

Just because you've had a bad experience with something in life, why should everyone else suffer?

 

[lew600fazer]

So I wonder what the fatality rate is in other parts of the world were alcohol is banned completely, Iran , Saudia Arabia and the like.
There should just be one law for all, if you drink don't drive.
Simples
Lew

 

[clever dicky]

Clever Dicky,

Clearly alcohol has played a big part in your life for whatever reasons, but do you really think that by banning it you would eradicate all of the problems that you mention?

I lost a very good friend of mine last year at the age of 31 due to alcohol dependency and in the final month leading up to his death I think he knew what was going to happen to him.

Would I advocate making alcohol illegal? Not a chance in hell; my friend, as well as all people dependant on a drug, knew that what he was doing would probably kill him, yer he continued to.

Just because you've had a bad experience with something in life, why should everyone else suffer?

Your quite wrong mate, I don't have a problem with it at all !
Other people do and that's my point.

Not everyone can stop before crossing that line. And why I refuse to ever be the intolerable burden on my mates, friends family or other road users.

You have my sincerest deepest sympathy, but while your alcoholic friend was happily and selfishly drinking himself to death, he clearly could care less about the impact and no doubt years of suffering on his partner, and friends and even family or what his loss and contribution to the world would be..

Of course I dont like or take any accolade in suggesting it should be banned. Although in Arab countries they manage it quite well. But if you can think of and suggest another solution I'll be the first to back you - or anyone.

But to answer your question "would I think that by banning it you would eradicate all of the problems that you mention?"
I'd have to say no not all but a damn good number.

 

[finisterre]

So I wonder what the fatality rate is in other parts of the world were alcohol is banned completely, Iran , Saudia Arabia and the like.
There should just be one law for all, if you drink don't drive.
Simples
Lew

United Kingdom 3.59 deaths per 100.000 per year

Saudi arabia 29.0
Iran 35.8
Iraq 38.1
Libya 40.5

Drinking seems to be not that big a factor.

 

[clever dicky]

I think as they have 'other issues' no one lives long enough anyway to be able to tell.

Perhaps that's the 'down-side' to a total ban

 

[SteveH2]

Plagiarism

Statistics on Drink-Driving Risk

The principal source of data on alcohol and accident risk is a study carried out by R F Borkenstein and others in the US State of Indiana in 1964 ¶. This was used as the basis for the original UK breathalyser legislation in 1967. The table below is an interpretation of Borkenstein's findings which shows the risk of a fatal or serious injury accident at various levels of blood-alcohol concentration, as compared to the risk for a completely sober driver. This needs to be seen in the context of the fact that the accident risk for a sober driver doing an average daily mileage on one particular day is less than one-sixth the chance of winning the jackpot on the National Lottery, in other words absolutely infinitesimal.

BAC Range(mg) Relative Accident Risk
0-9 1.00
10-19 0.92
20-29 0.96
30-39 0.80
40-49 1.08
50-59 1.21
60-69 1.41
70-79 1.52
80-89 1.88
90-99 1.95
100-119 4.94
120-139 5.93
140-159 10.44
160 and over 21.38

A feature of these figures that has intrigued statisticians is the reduction in accident risk between 10 mg and 40 mg, sometimes referred to as the "Borkenstein dip". This is certainly valid, not just a statistical quirk, and has been reinforced by other studies. However, it is unlikely really to indicate that consuming a small amount of alcohol will make you a slightly better driver. It is probably a combination of the fact that people driving after one or two small drinks are likely to be driving at times when the roads are quieter than average, and that they may try to compensate for the alcohol by making an effort to drive more carefully than usual. But this underlines the fact that, at these low levels, alcohol does not impair driving ability at all.

All sounds pretty clever, huh? Although perhaps less so when you know that it's been lifted, word for word, from this site:

The Dangers of Drinking and Driving

Giving credit where it's due is not hard.

 

[stwat]

 

[Giantvanman]

Here we go again. Is this a new member trying to up the post count by resurrecting ancient posts so they can access Classifieds or is it your garden variety Troll?

 

[Howard]

Probably the guy who wrote the piece originally got the hump that someone didn't say where they found the info ?

It's years ago , who cares.

 

[developer]

Here we go again. Is this a new member trying to up the post count by resurrecting ancient posts so they can access Classifieds or is it your garden variety Troll?

Who knows, but the tags are worth the resurrection .

 

[WDB124066]

Makes you wonder if the health and safety types should be handing out drinks before staff are allowed to drive home, anything that lowers accident risk by a massive 20% should be adopted by the Company really - shouldn't it..? The Navy have been on to this for years!

 

[thedruid]

Having dealt with drivers who are over the limit for many years my point of view is that lowering the limit will have no effect. "I've only had a pint officer, I swear on my kids life" says the driver struggling to stand. The current limit is fine. What is needed is a revue of sentencing. If you knew that you would lose your licence for 5 years for the first offence, ten for the second and for life for the third ( yes there are people like this ) would you be tempted to take the risk or be "not bothered". Personally if I'm driving I will have a glass of Coke or similar because I drink because I like the way it makes me feel after I've had a lot of it and a glass of pop tastes better with my food anyway. Will we ever have a political party brave enough to change the law because there will always be drivers who don't give a s*** about other people.
Anyway I have to go as I'm walking to the pub for some ale..

Cheers, Dave

 

[meeeb]

.... You dont have to be over the drink drive limit to be too drunk to drive.....

Which is why driving or attempting to drive under the influence of drink continues to be an offence.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

I honestly don't care what the fines/points are for being caught over the limit. I care more about the possibility of hurting, or even killing, someone if I drive whilst under the influence of alcohol. So I don't. It worries me that more people appear to be concerned about the possibility of being caught breaking a law than they are of the risk of causing personal harm.

 

[Alfie]

Im all for halving it or even making the limit zero.

However, as drink driving accounts for around 8% of the accidents on the roads things wont get a lot better until we tackle the the other 92% that are caused by stupidity, incompetance, recklessness etc. But there isnt a road side blow in the bag test for these causes is there