E270 CDI Vibration

[dermot]

Wondering if anyone has any ideas.

I have a 2003 w211 E270 CDI. Had a slight judder at 70mph around the 2000rpm. Guess what, just had the radiator replaced and the torque convertor due to the well known faulty Valeo radiator problem. I was unforunatley to have glycol in ATF but only had a slight judder.
I had a local auto transmission garage to do the job as I dont have a ramp. They fitted a re-manufactured convertor and new Rad.
They had the car for a week and handed it back over but said the clutch plates were soft and they were not sure how long they would last.
As soon as I took the car back there was a new nasty harsh vibration coming from below the centre console around the gearbox
Took the car back and they changed the torque convertor again (their expense). Also had the clutch plates changed while it was out again. However the vibration was still there. They took it apart again, stripped the box and changed one of the gears because the coating had slightly come off it. Cant see how that would cause any problems as the gear was not damaged.
Vibration still there and now they seem lost. They are now trying to swap parts over from a donor vehicle to try and locate the problem.

Does anyone have any ideas what the vibration could be. Never had it before the garage started the repair.
It is a very heavy drone / vibration at low speeds on acceleration. Gets worse after about 5 mins starting from cold and feels like the car is slighting struggerling to get going. On motorway cruising all I get is a very minor vibration now and again.

Thanks

 

[skemball]

Ive never heard of a re-manufactured torque converter. They tend to be use once due to the design.

If the vibration is not accompanied by any nasty noises then it could be an air blockage somewhere. I assume they replaced the sump oil pick up filter etc. Some gearboxes use a pump to get oil into the torque converter that in turn generates the drive from the flywheel into the gearbox.

I had an auto that was low on oil and on tight right hand turns (roundabouts) it felt just as if the engine was only running on 4 not 6 cylinders. No noise but hesitation (holding back) like an engine miss-fire.

 

[dermot]

That’s what they told me. Lots of places I got quotes for said they would use a re-manufactured convertor. £300 compared to Mercedes £800.

They did change the filter and they’ve had the gearbox out 3 times now.

There are no major nasty noises other than the harsh vibration. You can feel it through the console and the seats when you accelerate. Starts about 20mph upwards. If you cruise at 70mph on level ground you wont hear it.

They have used these torque convertors before and not had a problem. However that’s what they said!!!!!!!!!! They’ve had the car two weeks now and still not resolved it.

I read somewhere that the Lock up mechanism in the convertor (what ever that is) can cause a vibration if not working correctly. Don’t know if that would cause it

Cheers for the reply

 

[panason1c]

As already mentioned, i cant imagine how a T/C can be 're-manufactured'....it is a solid, welded-up unit, as far as i know there are no servicable parts inside nor is there any way to access the internals without cutting open the t/c and then you would never get it balanced perfectly after welding it back up.

'Re-manufactered' is probably a euphenism for 'secondhand'...bearing in mind there are an awful lot of glycol contaminated t/c's out there!

 

[dermot]

Cheers, I will speak to them about that. See what they say.

 

[skemball]

Assuming there are no mechanical issues then the vibration must be caused by interruption of oil pressure.

some kind of contamination partly blocking an oil channel/pump/valves etc. could cause vibration resulting in fluctuating drive. Does the vibration increase with engine revs more than an increase in speed? i.e. in first gear it pulses the same at 3000RPM as in third gear at 3000RPM. If so it could be further evidence of a partial restriction somewhere.

 

[franey]

........have you considered the engine mountings?

 

[dermot]

Cheers

When the engine revs there is nothing. It all happens when accelerating under load from 20mph up. The vibration is a constant noise and only disappears when cruising at a higher speed whist not under any load. It does not change regardless of revs.

I’ll pass the info over the garage, he did mention a possible fluctuating drive.

 

[skemball]

I think thats where they need to look further. Major strip down though!

 

[dermot]

The lastest is that they have now tried 3 torque convertors (they say all re-manufactured). When they disable the lock up mechanisim the noise disappears and they reckon its not the convertor. The box has been stripped as well *twice* and they cant find anything wrong. They now are going to borrow a control module from another vehicle to see if that cures it.

I told them that its probably the torque convertors that are no good, being re-manufactured but they are adamant they are fine.

All this work is coming out their pocket anyway but I reackon its needs a genuine Merc convertor. I wish I never gave them the vehicle to do now, at least they cant fob me off.

 

[skemball]

Any update Dermot?

It does sound like they are trying there best for you based on the work they are putting in.

 

[dermot]

Still waiting, There communication stills are not up to scratch. Will update

cheers

 

[Bazzle]

Ive had a few remanf torque convertors. Like new.
They only mainly reuse the case and have it radially welded again. New internal impellers and clutch.

I would suspect the engine and or gearbox mounts moving slightly under load and contacting, or exh hitting next to box.

Bazzle

 

[dermot]

cheers, I think they have already checked them and they are ok. The noise goes away when they switch of the lock off mechanism. He is a Merc specialist and has equipment to switch this off to test it. Still waiting a response from them as to what they plan to do next.

 

[dermot]

Lastest is that they have ordered a torque convertor from Mercs. They even tried a different gearbox and the noise was still there.

Hopefully this will cure it.

 

[Dieselman]

Should fix it. It sounds like the lock-up clutch is slipping when engaged. Maybe they are not sitting perfectly flat after being refurbed.

Has all the glycol definately been recovered from the sytem?

 

[dermot]

I guess so now since the box was originally flushed out when first done and then since the vibration the box has been in/out probably about 4 or 5 times now so had many oil changes.

Hopefully I should hear from them wednesday

 

[dermot]

Finally recieved the car back today. They changed the convertor again. Mixed stories as to what kind of convertor they have put in it (remanufactured or original). They all seem to give various stories as to what they have done and will not give a straight answer.

They said once they changed the convertor the main vbration had gone however there was still a slight vibration there. They then said they had the prop shaft balanced and it has cured the noise completely, which it has.

All seems good, although I have heard a slight drone every now and again. Not letting them touch it again. They said it will take a while for everything to bed in.

Got the car back and it stank of oil inside. They reckon they had it valeted, however when I wiped the steering wheel the tissue was black.

As least the car is useable again now. Cheers for everyones help

 

[skemball]

Good to here its back on the road and updating the thread - its undoubtably caused you a lot of stress as it would any of us when this kind of thing happens.