e320 cdi fueling problem

[blitz-diesel]

Hi. I brought a e320 cdi (w210) the other month. Its has been cutting out under hard acceleration, with EPC coming up on the on board computer.
Ive wiped the ecu faults with star and drove it until she cut out again. I now have two stored faults :
p1187-001 rail pressure monitoring- The max pressure has been exceeded
p1187-032 rail pressure monitoring- Control variation.

This is the first time i have used the star c3. So trying to get used to it
I think star was telling me to check the pressure from the tank fuel pump. I brought a fuel pressure test kit with many fitting, but none of them fit my car. So would i have to buy the special Mercedes pipes to fit to my gauge?

When i took the engine cover off i noticed around the last injector (near the bulkhead) the is some sort of stain. Im guessing its a leaking injector

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt162/Mull81/20120831_080912.jpg
http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt162/Mull81/20120831_080931.jpg

Could this be the cause of my problem?
Sorry this is such a long post for my first post. but the problem is really getting to me. and help would be grateful. Thanks
Tom

 

[englishdas]

After spending a couple of years avoiding switching out the injectors on my W210 e320 cdi, and it costing me a fortune in the long run, I would say definitely get it switched out.

It could be an air leak in the fuel lines, or a fuel pump failure, but the injectors are the most likely culprit. If you have a good indy who can pull em and rebuild em, it might save you a few pence, but long term new injectors are a better way to direct your dosh.

However, as always, get it on a STAR maachine first, always helps to see what codes are getting kicked up.

Best of luck.

 

[blitz-diesel]

Thanks
Would you know how much they are new?

 

[paultredgett]

Hi,
There are no deffo fuel leaks around the pump area?

 

[mersum1es]

Make the injector leak test, star will guide you through the test. You'll need few fuel hoses, and some plastic bottles which will hold the fuel without melting .

Another culprits are rail pressure sensor, pressure regulator and high pressure pump itself. Star will also have some test procedures for them. Use DAS simulation feature to practice then in advance (no need to connect to the car).

Edit: check out the foot of the injector, if there is black moist, seal is just beginning to leak. Change it immediately!

Edit2: Cutting out is often caused by problems with fuel pressure or injector control signal problem (connector/wire).

 

[englishdas]

Mine used to cut out at around 3000rpm when flooring it. I did have the fuel rail replaced (£95) and I replaced the fuel lines from the pump to the rail (about £20) as they were coming into close,contact with the fan if I remember rightly. They get brittle with age.

But then the injectors after being rebuilt, and finally giving up the ghost, were about £125 each. Don't get the fifty quid ones off eBay, they have to be the real deal. With luck you'll not need to replace all of em, its usually one or two at a time.

 

[GordonTarling]

It won't fix the leaking injector, but try changing the fuel filter to see if that fixes the EPC fault.

 

[BlackC55]

It won't fix the leaking injector, but try changing the fuel filter to see if that fixes the EPC fault.

Also check the smooth engine running with Star.

 

[blitz-diesel]

Hi. Thanks for the replys. Managed to connect the star again today.
Still haven't got the pipe to test the fuel delivery pump. Also haven't got a injector tester, so wasn't able to carry out fuel leak quantity of injectors.

But i did do a smooth engine test.

Im i right in thinking this is ok ?

Also i checked components of high pressure control circuit.
Rail pressure sensor offset test.

Current voltage is 0.513v
Pressure corresponding to the voltage is 5 bar.

Y74 pressure control valve test.
Coolant temp 40c
Engine speed 708 1/min
Rail pressure 284 BAR

I take it these are ok ? I'm a bit confused about the next one.

Rail pressure variation test

The star says "a fault will occur if the limit value 20 is exceeded at least 3 times"
Mine looks as if it hits the limit 4 times. So i selected yes. The star say to change the high pressure pump.

So do you think i still need to check the injectors?
Thanks Tom

 

[englishdas]

When I got a similar, if not the same error, my indy rebuilt my pump. Said "itll probably go again in the near future" but two years,later it was still tip top.

My injectors went on those following two years, but I doubt that was down to the refurbished pump.

If the star is saying pump, go with that. Although I have discovered you do sometimes spend a lot of time fixing one issue,,which then allows the star to find a new problem previously not known because of something faulty prior to that point.

I suppose it comes down to what you decide is deemed a sensible amount to sink into a car. I gave it about 2 years of constant wallet opening before switching mercs.

Saying all that, the fuel pump could be the only issue . Trouble free motoring may be just round the corner. Fingers crossed for you OP

 

[BlackC55]

Have you changed the filter?

 

[blitz-diesel]

No i haven't changed the fuel filter. The person i brought it off told me he had. I did see a new receipt for a filter, but i suspose its the cheapest thing to change. Just to be sure it's done.

To remove the injectors do i need a special tool?
Something like this?

9pc Common Rail Injector Puller Set Bosch Extractor Remover inc Mercedes CDI | eBay

 

[mersum1es]

To remove the injectors do i need a special tool?
Something like this?

9pc Common Rail Injector Puller Set Bosch Extractor Remover inc Mercedes CDI | eBay

Nope, unless your injector has suffered 'black death' and is jammed badly. Normally it should come out just pulling by hands.

What you'll need is new bolts and copper seals (some say also the clamp should be changed but IMO it's not so essential). And some special grease to lubricate the injector body when installing (I've read some discussion about is the greasing important or not - I did it just for sure).

 

[englishdas]

Nope, unless your injector has suffered 'black death' and is jammed badly. Normally it should come out just pulling by hands.

What you'll need is new bolts and copper seals (some say also the clamp should be changed but IMO it's not so essential). And some special grease to lubricate the injector body when installing (I've read some discussion about is the greasing important or not - I did it just for sure).

I am not going to doubt someone who has successfully removed the injectors w/o the tools, but I would get a second opinion on the need for injector removal tools, OP. I avoided 'black death' but the indy used special kit just the same, something about parts of the injectors liable to fall apart, potentially inside the engine. Maybe it was a belt n braces approach to the job, but I'm no expert.

 

[blitz-diesel]

Alright, thanks lads. i'll have a go by hand. I need to change A seal on one injector anyway. I think i'll try to pull out all 6 and go from there.

 

[mersum1es]

If you have potential copper seal leak, you may have already some tar around the injector body; it will be easier to pull off the injector when you first run the engine hot. Then carefully use pliers (don't squeeze solenoid!) to wiggle the injector out. Read/find instructions about removing dirt/cleaning threads/torque values etc. if you are not familiar with job (unfortunately many have managed to screw up something)... there is plenty of discussion and instructions available also other forums if not here.

Edit: if the injector is intact, there is nothing that would fall apart. But if using removal tool which is attached to the solenoid thread, in some injector models there is small check valve and it's components under the solenoid.

 

[joecash]

good luck

 

[Yazie]

I've had the same problem before it was the fuel rail sensor at the of the fuel rail near the bulk head i took my one of and it was split in 2 replaced problem gone

 

[blitz-diesel]

hi this problem is doing my head in now

Ive took the injectors to a place to get them tested. i did post the results in another thread so just copied and paste:

"The reading from the back leakage test are :
6.8
7.66
9.66
8.41
7.03
6.8
specification 15.0 plus
border line 8.0 plus.
the man a the injector place thinks this is not my problem."

I tried to test the delivery pump but broke my filter housing. Ive replaced the top part of the housing. Got a new filter.

Tried to take a pressure reading. but i havent got the connectors that go from the filter housing to the high pressure pump. So i thought i could take it from before the filter. But never got a reading. Nothing. But "Blackc55" did say "Low fuel pressure can only be tested from the output of the lift pump located on the front of the engine." On ANOTHER one of my threads.

So what should i do next?

Is it worth checking the delivery pump? Or Take the high pressure pump off to be tested?

 

[Dieselman]

So what should i do next?

Is it worth checking the delivery pump? Or Take the high pressure pump off to be tested?

In the absence of anyone else being prepared to help you out, I will

This could be:
Air being drawn in under high vacuum,
Blocked filter or restriction in the fuel pipe, (check with vacuum gauge)
3rd piston on HP pump not cutting in, (quite possible)
Rail valve leaking.

You should be able to check the rail pressure using live data on the STAR diag PC.
That should give an indication of what condition actually stops the engine.




Sorry to have posted into your thread with a factual, helpful post, but no-one else seems to want to help anyone anymore...