EIS / CAN / SAM Issues - Desperate fior help advice!

[Tubz]

Hi Guys,

I have an 02’ plate W210 E320 cdi that my mate managed to flood recently by leaving it sideways (nearside facing down) on top of a slipway and returning after one of the highest tides of the year and a super-moon (adding 2cm extra water for good measure!)

Anyway, not a complete disaster (in my mind!) as it was only halfway up the wheels, but enough to have water in the foot wells and over the battery fuse box – Now i know you’ll all probably say scrap it, (as most do!), but the car is/was immaculate prior and I’ve pulled the carpets and washed it out with paraffin and cleaned underneath already after recovery.



Battery sucked in sea water and did a lot of damage to fuse board and central locking pump was U/S. Have cleaned the board thoroughly and bought a new central locking pump and swapped the battery (obviously) , but not for a brand new one just yet!

Anyway, lots of issues, so I’ll state what I’ve done after reading around the topic and where I’m at now;

Everything electrical that doesn’t involve ignition being on, works fine; Lights, Doors (central locking), Windows off key sensor in drivers door, Radio wanting code (but wont work without ignition) interior lights etc all work. I state this as if my electrical woes were really deep rooted, I'm sure I'd have "some" other problems show up.

Anyway, after a lot of reading this last 3 or 4 weeks (car is 80miles from home at my friends) and after advice from my Indy guy and reading about CAN network blowing first usually and damaging EIS etc i'm trying to revive it. I have taken all seats and all floor carpets out and dried it out completely over a month. I have chopped the connectors in the sill channels (all the exposed connectors) and re-soldered and heat shrunk all the wires to give good connection, as I was getting continuity reading between some wires with them remaining in the connector blocks.

As I said everything seems to work electrically, but we could not get the ignition key to turn in the ignition (steering lock was released previously). I have since purchased new Ignition (EIS?), along with all associated ECU modules and SAM coded to that key (as I’m aware the modules are coded to the key) but, I still have the same problem. Car opens and locks with new key, drops windows and closes them from door sensor, but will not turn to position 1 when inserted in the ignition. I have 12volts at the ignition, but nothing happening. Is there a procedure for re-insertion and learning the new units/key?

One flaw i did perform yesterday was to insert new ignition (EIS?), all the associated ECU modules and forgot to insert the SAM module and its associated fuse/relays on top of it, before powering up. When i realised I disconnected battery (again!), swapped the SAM and fuse/relay board it came with too before powering up again, but have exactly the same problem.

Read last night about cleaning the end of the key along with the ignition insert as well as a 10amp fuse in the ECU box which I’m yet to try, but I’m clutching at straws now. I could obviously have bought U/S second hand EIS and associated modules, but I have to trust them as good as a start point.

Finally, there is a suppressor in the passenger footwall housed in the negative connection, before it goes through the bulkhead – Anyone tell me what this is for? I assume it’s for radio/noise suppression?

 

[BlackC55]

Before you do anything you will need it plugged into a Star. You will then be able to read the ignition switch. This will stop all the guessing.

 

[Tubz]

Thanks for the reply - I think you've advised me before on something else and only wished you were closer (or near to thw car)! My issue is the car is in West Wales with no local Star/Indy around and would need further recovery back to Cardiff. I was hoping to start it, to get it to my Indy and perform further diagnosis on other parts (there are bound to be more sensor issues!).

I was looking for initial answers to my insertion/removal of new coded parts and whether there is a procedure for this or any initial wake-up/key recognition sequence etc? - e.g. I read about holding lock in igniotion for 5 secs then unlock 5 times

Also would the new key work the doors and windows if it wasn't working coded correctly to all its parts etc? i.e have i made "any" progress by swapping EIS, ECU's and SAM?

Any help gratefully appreciated.

 

[BlackC55]

You will need a Star to code the necessary control modules that you have replaced. I really think you will get no-where unless you plug it in.

 

[Tubz]

Hi Olly, Firstly I really, really appreciate the input (especially as i know you are also an indy!) , but could you a a small bit of substance to your reasoning for me or throw me some form of bone?!

My local (Cardiff) Indy specialist advised on sourcing another EIS, but that I'd need all modules that go with it as they are coded together....only then might i be able to start it as the water ingress will short the +/- 3v CAN network first, and that EIS is the first thing to normally go. I've followed this advice and although I have to assume the second hand units are all good, i might well have the same fault/s granted, but am looking for a start point. I'm trying to make some assumptions on the swapped parts based on doors windows working with new key...

I was under the impression that provided i swapped all the coded parts that i might have a chance. Your advice is pointing toward 'always having to recode' (which i assume would be the case on an individually swapped part) , but not if i swap them all?

I was hoping to drive it to my Indy (with Star), as was advised i might have drive off faults, but would get 40 starts...This is why I'm on the forum initially to attempt expensive recovery and a hefty bill. I also cant move steerig wheel and would normally use this car for hiring a trailer and pulling any others that might break down on me!

I'm not a total numpty and I tinker with a couple of 300ZX's which i have diagnosis software on a laptop for, but they need ignition for diagnosis and i assumed Star was the same hence trying to start it first?

I have an ODB2 reader, if i buy an adaptor for the E320 will this give codes without ignition enabled?

Really after some practical steps to try before i perform another 220mile round trip to recover it on a trailer or flatbed (steering is also stuck so i need a winch and skates for that job, meaning i have to use someone else for that too!).

 

[richard]

In theory modules on the CANbus should not fail if one or both of the wires are cut / shorted to ground / etc /etc

Have you found the CANbus distributor(s) and checked that they are not corroded / full of salt ?

I'd be going with "write off" i'm afraid. Salt water is a terrible thing for electronics - rots everything, and if it doesn't it leave salt crystals which turn back to salt water when it gets damp/humid/winter and your back into random failures. Thats what insurance is for !!

As Olly says, you need Star Diagnosis on this to tell you why EIS isn't allowing you to turn/start, then you can find out what is broken really ..

Richard

 

[Tubz]

Hi Richard, any details welcome!

They might if they get 12 volts from a battery reacting to sucked up salt water (from the acid overflow pipe!) and a shorting fuse box rather than a regulated 3volts?? This all worked fine pre-flood don't forget

What do you mean by CANbus distributor(s)?

If you mean the multiplugs in the sills/wiring channels, i've pretty much cut them all out soldered and heat shrink wrapped them all for insulation to avoid further issue. (As you say salt corrosion around the wire entry points to any multiplugs) All wiring sprayed with parafin and days later contact cleaner to avoid further issue (in the short term!) Only wiring in the floorpan was wet.

I've just googled CANbus distributor and from the one pic i've seen (other model) i might have missed this if its hidden in the sill channel wiring (seems very flat?! )

 

[richard]

CANbus distributor is about 1cm x 0.75cm x 8cm, and has lots of pairs of wires going into it (all the pairs are the same).

If its got wet, replace it with a new one and clean all the plugs etc etc. I suppose you could deconstruct and clean, but it is vital.

CAN (by spec) can cope with 12V (or more) on it, its meant to be very very resilient as it is the car's network.

I don't know how many CANbus there are on your car, one or two (one with green/green-white) wires, one with brown/brown-red wires. There will likely be more than one of these distributor blocks.

Richard

 

[BlackC55]

It's pointless looking at the can connectors just yet.

Start from the beginning and plug it in. I have rescued flooded cars before and I started by plugging them in.

How do you know the switch or other units you got were working fully?

 

[E270 Owner]

Fully charge the vehicle battery and leave the new key in the EIS for a few hours.

Good luck.

 

[richard]

It's pointless looking at the can connectors just yet.

Start from the beginning and plug it in. I have rescued flooded cars before and I started by plugging them in.

How do you know the switch or other units you got were working fully?

Yes, agreed - it needs plugging into Star - there is just too much stuff to check in those wiring ducts and just above

I still worry that a salt-water flooded car is much worse off than a river/rain water flooded car because of the salt.

R

 

[Terry_]

Silly question but..
When you changed 'all the coded parts'. Did you swap out the steering lock with the other parts? If you didn't the key will not turn

 

[Tubz]

Not silly at all - No this was not swapped. I was informed this was not a coded part and was driven/released by the EIS?

I bought all parts as a bundle from a breaker who had an advertised 'package' of parts which came without this also and so i presumed the previously supplied information correct?

Can anyone else confirm/deny the steering lock part as being coded?

Can i remove/bypass the lock in anyway?

If confirmed I'll need to try and source the lock coded to the new (secondhand) parts, otherwise this makes all the other parts useless?! As per olly i don't know if they're all working as they are indeed secondhand, but have to assume so at the moment.

My other option was a new EIS from Merc which with new key and coding to my parts via chassis number at £700 - all to find out what additional faults i might have, so was trying to have a go on the cheap, before throwing good money after bad.

As i said guys, i really appreciate all advice, but still need to know;

If star will/can read anything with no power to EIS?/Ignition on/car running

Is the steering lock a coded part?

What is the capacitor in the passenger foot-well that forms part of the main battery connections through the bulkhead for?

Thanks again for all the comments

 

[BlackC55]

1. Yes. The EIS only
2. No
3. Take a pic or tell me the part number.

 

[Tubz]

Olly thanks for your continued support with such a frustrating member!

Would post a pic or send part no, but i'm also back at work/home and 80/100 miles from the car again - trying to gather info before another jaunt at the weekend.

On another note, I went down this route as even with the car wet (with old keys and original EIS) it just wouldn't allow me to get to position 1/2 on ignition - All electrics as described were working as they are now, so i have been cleaning and drying since and went down the new EIS based on advice. new key operates windows and doors so I assume i have all correct parts and some part of the CAN network is operational? or is this another red herring.

As you suggest testing the EIS (as i might have been sold parts from a duff car with the same issue?!) so is there a way of getting my original EIS tested separate from the car? (post it to someone such as you with Star along with a fee?!)

I have assumed EIS failure based on being unable to turn the key and advice from my local indy on this potentially blowing first as its 3v system and any shorts/extra load would cause this system or the chips on the EIS to fail/blow first - Hence then buying an EIS and all parts coded to it - ECU, Gearbox ECU (everything in ECU box swapped!) along with SAM and fuse/relay board above that...

Anyone know an INDY in West Wales or someone with Star to provide an initial prognosis?

 

[E270 Owner]

This might help ............

I fit these secondhand Key sets quite regularly its cheaper than £500+ bill for replacement keys from Mercedes.

They comprise of Key/s EIS ECU and Steering lock

The set must be complete and are plug and play no coding.

The only problem you may encounter is the central locking works on the remote but it wont unlock the Steering, if this is the case press unlock twice and leave the key in the EIS for a couple of hours.

Good Luck

Again

 

[IanA2]

This forum at it's best

Someone asks for help. Gets very good advice from specialists and nobody tells tells that he's a whatever or starts arguing or making snide remarks.

That's the forum I joined.

 

[Tubz]

This might help ............

I fit these secondhand Key sets quite regularly its cheaper than £500+ bill for replacement keys from Mercedes.

They comprise of Key/s EIS ECU and Steering lock

The set must be complete and are plug and play no coding.

The only problem you may encounter is the central locking works on the remote but it wont unlock the Steering, if this is the case press unlock twice and leave the key in the EIS for a couple of hours.

Good Luck

Again

Thanks for the advice E270 owner! ..will be trying all this on the weekend again as a final throw of the dice (and tring to find a local Indy/Star owner who can read my codes!)

This comment again refers/infers to the Steering lock being coded? Any comment on that front again ? (i'll try to get the lock from the same breaker, but not holding much hope and might not get it now for fri/Sat) not playing valuable advice off against each other and will take any experience I can get but Olly advises earlier that the lock is indeed a non-coded part?

 

[E270 Owner]

The EIS communicates to the ESL via K line, so all the units are coded to each other.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zke2CPmcM9o

MB Star procedure for different model but I'm not giving too much away for obvious reasons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_PsT_RPNRM

 

[Tubz]

Fao:e270

E270 owner - do you have a number/website - can't seem to PM. If all the hints and tips fail (have called breaker to source same ESL, but car was scrapped and they only advertised parts other people did, so not aware that ESL is coded and part of the package - :-( )... can I bring/post all sets (old and new{old}) to be tested/coded separate from the car? I have chassis numbers for my originals and the new set...Assume this is your business? Apologies if not!

Also I was going to try your "press unlock twice and leave the key in the EIS for a couple of hours" - Is this click before insertion or with key inserted? - However, based on your further update this would also point toward failure and is a contradiction based on the ESL being coded?? - I will try it, as i assumed you meant that the key/ECU/EIS might eventually 'learn' the ESL?

Thanks again guys for the details - Very much appreciated. And just to say I'm miles from the car, so trying to get as much detail in prep for another shot at firing her up on Saturday, so don't get frustrated at me not trying these tips before asking more questions!!