Energy companies in trouble - good

[m80]

That may very well have been me. I lost count the amount of times SSE contacted me to try and persuade me to have a smartmeter; they phoned, texted, emailed and wrote letters. "It'll save you money" they said. My reply was to quote another contributor to this forum "S'all bøllocks, innit"
They just couldn't comprehend that I am perfectly capable of saving energy by the simple process of switching stuff off when I'm not using it.

I was thinking of Ricky Tomlinson, but I'm sure you are a philosopher of equal standing.

Curious as to why some folk are so anti-smartmeter?

Don't have one so maybe they possess some magic I am unaware of.
But as said if it's on and it don't need be on, switch it off.
Them's that is too dumb to know that can't be educated by a little screen flashing or showing a high usage reading.
And those types I'm familiar with will nick the batteries from the smoke alarms (when they used to have removable batteries). So I suspect their little pretend tablets will end up being repurposed.

But the money tree passes it's costs on to the taxpayer. Nowts for nowt.

 

[SpikyMikey]

Curious as to why some folk are so anti-smartmeter?

I'm not anti per se, I personally just don't see them as adding value and the more SSE tried to get me to have one, the less interested I became.

 

[SpikyMikey]

I was thinking of Ricky Tomlinson, but I'm sure you are a philosopher of equal standing.

I've got some way to go before I attain a standard equal to the great Mr Tomlinson I'm afraid.

 

[colinallcars]

I'm not anti per se, I personally just don't see them as adding value and the more SSE tried to get me to have one, the less interested I became.

I don’t understand how they save money, they just record what you use. Other actions might save money.

 

[Gollom]

I don’t understand how they save money, they just record what you use. Other actions might save money.

But surely they can give information which in turn assists is taking action to save money?

 

[Bellow]

But surely they can give information which in turn assists is taking action to save money?

I think - though I'm not absolutely certain - that they are intended to make a 'smart' grid. A grid where the electrical flow can be towards a home - or from it. Not just feeds from solar panels but an EV's battery when it is deemed the grid needs the electricity more than the car does.
Worth noting perhaps that installation of a home charger appears to be contingent on there being an accompanying smart meter.

Presumably, by better targeting of usage patterns, it can be discerned when an EV is being charged - possibly the basis for future taxation on electricity used for EVs.

 

[m80]

I think - though I'm not absolutely certain - that they are intended to make a 'smart' grid. A grid where the electrical flow can be towards a home - or from it. Not just feeds from solar panels but an EV's battery when it is deemed the grid needs the electricity more than the car does.
Worth noting perhaps that installation of a home charger appears to be contingent on there being an accompanying smart meter.

Presumably, by better targeting of usage patterns, it can be discerned when an EV is being charged - possibly the basis for future taxation on electricity used for EVs.

My view there is that a meter can't discern what is taking the energy.
There might be an assumption that an increase, at say midnight,would be to charge an EV, in part. But how much of that should be taxed as EV fueling?

I thought there were to be smart chargers that could be controlled remotely. These having an internet connection, like my super smart water meter, could then inform 'them' of how much to penalise the user.

If 'they' are desirous to take fluids not required by me back through the water meter I do hope I don't get them back through my tap any time later.

 

[Chrishazle]

I've been visited or emailed a time or two about having a smart meter - first time, BG sent a man to fit one, he took one look at my electricity meter cupboard, said "that's 3 phase, I'm not qualified to work on that. Hang on a minute, I don't think there's currently a 3 phase domestic smart meter available" and off he went. Second time the contractor Avro had employed phoned me, I said "is there now a domestic 3 phase meter available?" No, there's not, we'll mark your account so you're not called again. Now Avro have gone TU I wonder what will happen next - but even if they finally come up with a 3 phase meter, mobile phone signal here is pants!

 

[Bellow]

My view there is that a meter can't discern what is taking the energy.
There might be an assumption that an increase, at say midnight,would be to charge an EV, in part. But how much of that should be taxed as EV fueling?

I suspect the high currents for long durations might give the game away... And don't inverters in chargers feed back an identifiable ripple?

 

[m80]

I suspect the high currents for long durations might give the game away... And don't inverters in chargers feed back an identifiable ripple?

Don't know about the identifiable ripple, or if it could be identified way back up line. I would be surprised though.

My point is that come midnight we fire up washing machine and dishwasher. With no EV, by your thoughts, I might get a tax bill for fuelling a car I don't have.
The problem, by my thought, is I don't see it possible to discern how much of the additional load is for an EV.

 

[Bellow]

Don't know about the identifiable ripple, or if it could be identified way back up line. I would be surprised though.

A potential problem for the grid apparently - 'harmonics'.

My point is that come midnight we fire up washing machine and dishwasher. With no EV, by your thoughts, I might get a tax bill for fuelling a car I don't have.
The problem, by my thought, is I don't see it possible to discern how much of the additional load is for an EV.

A 5kW washing machine running for 10 hours?
The continuous nature of the current draw vs the intermittency of the cycling a washing machine or dish washer would be easily identified.

 

[m80]

A potential problem for the grid apparently - 'harmonics'.

A 5kW washing machine running for 10 hours?

No course not,
but wouldn't most feel unjustly dealt with if all night time leccy used was penalised?

 

[Gollom]

A potential problem for the grid apparently - 'harmonics'.

A 5kW washing machine running for 10 hours?

Have you SEEN the size of his trousers?

 

[Bellow]

No course not,
but wouldn't most feel unjustly dealt with if all night time leccy used was penalised?

The point is that EV charging is identifiable from all other uses.

 

[Gollom]

My view there is that a meter can't discern what is taking the energy.
There might be an assumption that an increase, at say midnight,would be to charge an EV, in part. But how much of that should be taxed as EV fueling?

I thought there were to be smart chargers that could be controlled remotely. These having an internet connection, like my super smart water meter, could then inform 'them' of how much to penalise the user.

If 'they' are desirous to take fluids not required by me back through the water meter I do hope I don't get them back through my tap any time later.

Wouldn't a car charger be running from a dedicated fuse and therefore could be identified? Don't know the answer myself

 

[Bellow]

Have you SEEN the size of his trousers?

Nope - but his hat is easily washed...

 

[m80]

Wouldn't a car charger be running from a dedicated fuse and therefore could be identified? Don't know the answer myself

Only within the property,
the only other way would be to meter the EV charger separately. Very feasible but then so would be plugging the charger into the house ring instead.

 

[Doodle]

When my charger was fitted, they put a separate feed off the meter output directly to a dedicated MCB, separated from the rest of the house.

On that basis from the meter's perspective it would be all the same load, but theoretically easy enough.

 

[Bellow]

Only within the property,
the only other way would be to meter the EV charger separately. Very feasible but then so would be plugging the charger into the house ring instead.

Charging an EV will be identifiable either by very high current draw or, very long (continuous) charging time - or a combination thereof. If the draw from the grid was so minimal as to be unnoticeable there'd be no need for concern re the grid's inability to cope.

 

[m80]

Charging an EV will be identifiable either by very high current draw or, very long (continuous) charging time - or a combination thereof. If the draw from the grid was so minimal as to be unnoticeable there'd be no need for concern re the grid's inability to cope.

I'm not saying unnoticeable, just the purpose can't be reliably identified.

An estate is supplied across 3 phases.
Several houses share each phase.
There will be a limited number per fuse at the substation, but still that fuse supplies several houses.

Any monitoring isn't going to be at a local substation. And upstream from there the supply is fed via HV to several sub stations.
I don't see where any monitoring of what goes on inside Number 9 is going to take place.

We have our own meters to record our individual usage.

Imagine some poor sod taking a shower (10Kw) at 3am before he walks to work.as milkman or postwoman and gets billed for the EV he hasn't got because then the dish washer kicked in, followed by the drying cycle of the washer.
Chargers don't always take 10 hours, or indeed apply a heavy load to supply, it depends on the state of discharge.

Anyway France will be needing their own leccy before all this, so we'll be buying treadmills so we can power the telly.
We will find a way to befriend our Vlad when we become more dependant on his Nord Stream. The idea of the US supplying our gas needs by tanker seems a bit far fetched to me.