Experts to find/fix electrical problems?

[ItalianTuneUp]

Assuming that most of the initially listed issues have been fixed by the new alternator, then I'm left with this occasional one, which happened again yesterday:

. Occasional ignition failure: turn the key to ignition position but nothing happens, just silence. It always starts eventually, but is random and there is no way of predicting how long it will be before successful ignition.

Any ideas?

Starter motor sticking? When this issue occurs there is no audible click.

1000th post!

 

[Ted]

I had this on my w210.
If i then tried the second key it would always turn over and start. After that it would be ok for a few weeks until it happened again.
Never got it sorted but I suspected the eis.

Other things could be the selector switch or possibly starter but if it were the starter I would expect to see a slight dimming of the ignition lights due to the solenoid current draw (of course a solenoid can fail open circuit but that is unusual).

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

Thanks Ted. Yes, I think that the starter motor is slightly unlikely, and my impression is that it's something purely electronic, as there is not any sound or display dimming due to solenoid draw.

I was given 3 keys when I bought the car, but iirc, the other 2 keys don't seem to work, but I'll have to dig them out and retry them.

I'm not familiar yet with EIS, but I'll have to have a read up on it.

The other problem reared its head again today...hmmm! :

. Occasional weird freaky events where the Speedo/rev needles swing around wildly and all lights on the dash do their Christmas lights impression, followed by car slowing down, jolting, loss of power. Fixed by turning ignition off and on again!

It was cold today, and had been raining either yesterday or the day before...with lots of wind. But today was just cold and sunny. I don't know how much effect the weather/moisture level has on this.

 

[dozypillock]

Thanks Ted. Yes, I think that the starter motor is slightly unlikely, and my impression is that it's something purely electronic, as there is not any sound or display dimming due to solenoid draw.

I was given 3 keys when I bought the car, but iirc, the other 2 keys don't seem to work, but I'll have to dig them out and retry them.

I'm not familiar yet with EIS, but I'll have to have a read up on it.

The other problem reared its head again today...hmmm! :

. Occasional weird freaky events where the Speedo/rev needles swing around wildly and all lights on the dash do their Christmas lights impression, followed by car slowing down, jolting, loss of power. Fixed by turning ignition off and on again!

It was cold today, and had been raining either yesterday or the day before...with lots of wind. But today was just cold and sunny. I don't know how much effect the weather/moisture level has on this.

Could still have an earthing issue somewhere. Cold makes different metals expand er..differently, so copper rings, onto steel panels etc. There is many, many earths on your car. I have no suggestions as to where to start. Just look for any, and if lazy, just undo, turn slightly, tighten up again. If doing properly, obviously clean the joint fully.
Hopefully somebody on here will know the likely earth locations for the problems you are having.

Neil

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

Thanks Neil, but I wouldn't know where to start looking for some bad earth point.

You could well be right that it could be an earthing problem.

Shouldn't this kind of thing show up on STAR?

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

Also, the car had a B service last week and the pollen filter was changed as part of that. However, when parked in traffic at the lights etc, you can smell diesel exhaust fumes entering the cabin via the air con. The garage said there were no leaking injectors.

Should I have asked for a charcoal filter to be changed as well as the pollen filter?

 

[John]

Well, I was going to wait until MOT time to get my alternator checked which is due soon but this week has seen the demise of some of my 'consumers'.

Started with two red LEDs on the parking sensors earlier this week which is a little unusual but they've done it before. However, they would only do that once and back to normal for ages. This time, they've not worked since.

Today I got a red 'visit somewhere you can pay lots of money to' message after starting up.

Then, despite having the heaters on, I noticed the windscreen was misting up about 5 minutes into my journey. I then realised the fans were not blowing at all or if they were - it was undetectable. Turned off my music and sure enough - no usual fan sound either!

How old is your car ITU?

Having once had a 10 year old Mundano on 130,000 in which the alternator died in cold snowy weather on the motorway (things gradually stopped working as you would expect), mine is on 84k and has just turned 10 years old back in October and it is now December when demand is high (even though today I just had heaters - no heated seats like usual), not to mention your odd issues ITU, I smell an alternator-shaped rat at this stage!

Will be getting it checked but just indulging in some speculation...

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

Oh dear, yes sounds like you're having similar 'fun' that I've had !

My car is about 9 years old now. Sounds quite possible that your alternator might be near the end of its life.

Funny you should say about the air con issue. I was driving along a week or so ago and the windows started misting up, which is odd, as the air con & removal of moisture is absolutely top notch on these cars...moisture expelled within a matter of seconds or a minute or so normally.

Haven't driven the motor for a few days now, but will keep my eyes peeled for odd things.

Having said all that, the recent alternator replacement seems to have completely eliminated the daily red 'Battery Charge, ooh that's gonna cost you!' messages and also the daily EPC (Expensive Payout Coming-up?) messages These used to irritate me greatly, so two down...some others to go, ho hum!

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

And despite having B service just recently, I saw a new message appear: "Add 1.0 L oil!'...I don't know why this should appear the last time I drove it, I hope the oil plug was tightened properly! (if there is one, remember reading somewhere about vacuuming oil out on some cars). I'll give the garage a call as I have no idea what oil they put in...Mobil 1 perhaps but what spec?

 

[V12]

These do have a sump plug and I'm sure you'd notice on the ground if you lost 1.0L oil!!!

Garages vacuum out oil to save putting the car on a ramp sometimes. A warm engine and gravity is still the best method IMO.

The sensor in the sump that measures the oil could possibly be at fault, worth considering anyway.

 

[John]

I would contact them to be sure as they might have used a slightly different one to the one you are supposed to (check your service book if you have one as my inde writes what oil they used in it).

I think mine uses 0w40 Mobil 1 but obviously not the same car.

Even then, I stick with the same brand as well as spec.

With regard to the alternator - mine is duff too.

We tested both batteries and they are fine (main = 2013, aux = 2012).

We tested the alternator and with nothing consuming, mine runs at 13.0v > 13.3v.

With lights, heaters and heated seats, it drops to 12.7v and there it stays until the consumers are turned off and then it gradually returns to the above.

I'm going to be interested to see what weird issues are fixed once replaced!

In hindsight, I think it has gradually deteriorated over a while now.

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

Well, I had to drive across the continent back to UK today, so I gave Olly a call and then bought a litre of 5W30 MB spec 229.51 Shell synthetic oil and chucked half of it into the engine...it seemed to shut the messages up for the rest of the drive back.

A bit concerning though! I could think of 5 possibilities for this:

1. Insufficient oil was put in during the oil replacement during B service
2. Enough oil was put in but there's a new oil leak somewhere that wasn't there before (loose sump plug?)
3. The oil sensor has suddenly acquired a new fault
4. The oil sensor was at fault previously but never showed up until now
5. Something new has caused the car to burn through oil like no tomorrow

I didn't notice an oil slick under the car this morning but then I didn't look under it, but I surely would have noticed 1 litre pouring out...especially as the car was parked on a hill for the last week. Weird.

I shall look under the car tomorrow and see if there's any oil on the road. Might be worth dropping by the garage again for a quick check of anything obvious, as oil loss makes me nervous.

An occasional error from the past reared its head again today... 'Speed limiter / cruise control....visit workshop!' or something like that. Very annoying as I needed to drive off the motorway, enter services and park, turn off engine and turn it on again. I booted it up to 30mph on the roundabout to test the cruise control was operational again before going back onto M20 sliproad. All was well again. Anyone had this message, and if so what was the cause?

 

[Ted]

Tyre pressures or incorrect size tyres?

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

Tyre pressures or incorrect size tyres?

You mean that might be causing the limiter/cruise control function to fail? The tyre pressures were set to 29 PSI for the fronts and 30 PSI for the rears, which is the standard pressures quoted inside the fuel flap, so should be ok. Inflated one week ago and they seem to hold the air pressure quite well. This message appears very rarely.

Continental Sport Contact 5 245/45/R18 103Y XL FR tyres on the fronts, 255/45/R18 103Y XL FR tyres on the rears. 8.5J wheels front, 9J wheels rear IIRC, and if that nomenclature makes sense.

Are you thinking of the ride height sensor, or something?

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

dup

 

[Ted]

No - pretty sure that the abs/esp monitors the difference on the wheel rotation and if this is significant will throw up an error.
May be worth rechecking pressures with a decent pressure gauge and confirming tyre sizes and wear are correct and even.
It's certainly the first place I would be looking.

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

The thing is that this message re limiter/cruise is seemingly random and extremely rare...

As is/was the weird situation re the Speedo/rev counter moving around wildly with all the dash lights blinking...

...as is the rare message 'display defective' message...

...as is the odd situation when the ignition fails without any sound.

These are weird and seemingly random messages.

My impression is that there are weird gremlins going on in the electronics, and I don't know what is causing them, or how to begin diagnosing them.

But they must be fixed. I'm determined to resolve them so that I have a reliable car. I sat in the car cursing it the other day when the car park was about to close and I couldn't start the bl**dy thing. It was about 30 minutes waiting, turning the key in the ignition before it finally started. That is not how it should be!

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

By the way, when the car did finally start in the car park, the message displayed was 'EPC Electronic Program Control'

 

[ItalianTuneUp]

Another thing I just remembered, although it's probably unrelated: the car now seems to idle unevenly on start up. I don't ever remember this happening previously.

It ticks over evenly again if you rev it fairly gently (2000 rpm ish) a few times.

 

[John]

The issue is the time it probably takes to diagnose these issues - unless someone has come across them before.

It might take a while and the bill mounts up the longer that is spent on it.