F1 2019

[grober]

Missed this when it first came out despite knowing it was in the offing. Brought memories of John Surtees to mind when he made the successful transition from motorcycle World Champion to F1 World Champion. John Surtees - Wikipedia

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[Mactech]

Rossi seemed quite at home in an F1 car in this test.....but it was not the first time he has driven one.

This spy shot reveals that the first time he drove one, he was less sure of the techniques involved

 

[GeeJayW]

Rossi seemed quite at home in an F1 car in this test.....but it was not the first time he has driven one.

This spy shot reveals that the first time he drove one, he was less sure of the techniques involved

View attachment 90993

He did do a test with Ferrari. I don't know if it's true, but at the time I was told by someone closer to it than me, that Rossi didn't react well when he was unable to get the car to lap quicker than the engineers said it would. Basically spat his dummy out apparently.

 

[Mactech]

He did do a test with Ferrari. I don't know if it's true, but at the time I was told by someone closer to it than me, that Rossi didn't react well when he was unable to get the car to lap quicker than the engineers said it would. Basically spat his dummy out apparently.

Hardly surprising if he drove it like that

I'm sure we can date the event from the tobacco sponsorship on both the car and leathers, but doesn't it seem a long time ago that this was still allowed?

 

[Stratman]

He did do a test with Ferrari. I don't know if it's true, but at the time I was told by someone closer to it than me, that Rossi didn't react well when he was unable to get the car to lap quicker than the engineers said it would. Basically spat his dummy out apparently.

Was it a case of him being angry at himself for not being able to 'beat the engineers', or at the engineers for limiting his potential lap times?

 

[GeeJayW]

Was it a case of him being angry at himself for not being able to 'beat the engineers', or at the engineers for limiting his potential lap times?

The former as I understand it. Basically felt that he was unable to make a difference. IIRC it was during the Schumacher era and Rossi was unsurprisingly somewhat 'off the pace', not something he was used to. All hearsay on my part of course.

 

[Mactech]

The former as I understand it. Basically felt that he was unable to make a difference. IIRC it was during the Schumacher era and Rossi was unsurprisingly somewhat 'off the pace', not something he was used to. All hearsay on my part of course.

I think this a fairly common frustration of motorcycle racers turning to four wheels.
I think we can all agree that riders are a greater part of the performance package than drivers, but I have a theory that is supported by no evidence other than my own observation and experience.

I think the percentage that the 'pilot' can bring to the performance package is proportional to his mass as a percentage of the whole vehicle.

Of course, you don't have to agree, but let me throw some observations out there and I think you may see where I'm coming from.

• It is very rare to see a 'Noah's Ark' grid in MotoGP. Practically to norm in F1
• Young riders have more chance of shining to the lower classes of bike racing where the rider can be a full 50% of the total vehicle weight.
• This gets harder in MotoGP where the rider proportion reduces to around 30%....and yes, the competition gets tougher.
• As car gets heavier relative to the driver, it seems there is less the driver car do to mask inadequacies in equipment. I've seen first hand how very quick formula car drivers have struggled in Le Mans and GT3 cars.
• I remember seeing Casey Stoner on one of his first rides in the UK whilst my son was running in 125's. His speed out of the final turn on to the pit straight at Donington was visibly quicker than anyone else on a cold damp day. His bike was literally bent from having been down the road a few too many times, but it was his 50% of the mass that was making the difference!
• At the other end of the scale, if you have not got the right car, set-up, Crew Chief and engine in NASCAR, what ever your name is, you are being shuffled to the back of the pack in an almost 2 tonne race car. There is almost no driver domination in this series.

I wonder how that will knock on to the new higher weight limit in F1 next year?

 

[Bellow]

You neglected karts Mactech. From my limited experience with karts, where you might expect the 'light' guy to have an advantage, it doesn't quite work that way. The bulkier guy with more weight in his upper torso can better get the inside rear wheel in the air to the benefit of cornering. Only exiting a tight part of the circuit onto the main straight did the light guy have an edge (acceleration). On one corner out of a dozen or so.

 

[st13phil]

I think this a fairly common frustration of motorcycle racers turning to four wheels.
I think we can all agree that riders are a greater part of the performance package than drivers, but I have a theory that is supported by no evidence other than my own observation and experience.

I think the percentage that the 'pilot' can bring to the performance package is proportional to his mass as a percentage of the whole vehicle.

Interesting theory, and I'm supremely unqualified to counter it other than referencing the observation that "Stavros" Parrish made when truck racing started to get popular in the UK.

He said that bike racers seemed to transition to it better than car racers. His theory was that a high-mass four-wheeler resists changing direction very much like a motorcycle, so both reward a smooth cornering technique, which is somewhat the opposite of the "pointy" characteristics favoured by drivers of lighter cars (like F1).

 

[Mactech]

Yes, I think 'Stavros' is right and that bikers in general are more adaptable as they have been used to bringing a bigger percentage of the performance to the overall package.
What I believe is that many more people could challenge his lap times in a truck than could ever get close to him on a bike.
I'm sure Rossi's frustration was born out of the fact that in a car he was a smaller (but none the less vital) contribution to the overall performance.

 

[Deleted member 113659]

To add to the above I’m wondering if it’s marginally easier (for the pros) to drive a car (F1 or other) closer to the edge than a bike. Push a car over the edge and you’ll either lose the front, rear or ideally drift.
Push a bike over the edge and you’ll maybe have an ‘incident’.

My point being that the bikers speed could be down to pure courage on how far to push (although I guess they all have Balls of steal).
I think Lewis Hamilton would be a lot more tentative on Rossi’s bike (for fear of coming off) than Rossi would be in Hamilton’s car.

 

[st13phil]

My point being that the bikers speed could be down to pure courage on how far to push (although I guess they all have Balls of steal).

I'm sure there's an element of that: "losing" a bike tends to result in a much greater chance of a visit to ER than "losing" a car, however I also think some of it comes down to how good the driver / rider is at judging where the limit of grip is, and bikes perhaps give more instantaneous (and violent) feedback at the limit than cars because of their lower mass and shorter wheelbase?

A fantastic example on two wheels is Rossi, who seems to have an innate ability to sense exactly how hard he can push on worn rubber when grip is lower and less predictable. Perhaps that's one of the reasons that he has demonstrated an ability to carve through the leading pack late in the race so many times in his career without binning it?

 

[Mactech]

Just thinking aloud, but I wonder if this is why the most fun I remember having on a bike was testing my son's GP125?
Here I am at Brands...and probably just over 50% of the 'mass in service'

 

[bob6600]

CLC extends contract and signs new deal until end of 2024

Charles Leclerc extends Ferrari contract until 2024 F1 season

 

[Neiltodd]

Thats a long contract!

 

[bob6600]

Just in case they are not competitive in 2021+, stops him going anywhere! I don't think Seb will be there after the 2021 season unless he wins it

 

[Deleted member 113659]

Just in case they are not competitive in 2021+, stops him going anywhere! I don't think Seb will be there after the 2021 season unless he wins it

OR CLC has been clever and stipulated a ‘Poor Performance Clause’ in his contract like MV is rumoured to have at Red Bull. (Although very unlikely that Ferrari would agree to such a thing.)

 

[GeeJayW]

OR CLC has been clever and stipulated a ‘Poor Performance Clause’ in his contract like MV is rumoured to have at Red Bull. (Although very unlikely that Ferrari would agree to such a thing.)

Hard to imagine Ferrari admitting that they have performed poorly if they were last on the grid.

 

[190]

Hard to imagine Ferrari admitting that they have performed poorly if they were last on the grid.

No, they would blame another team and put in a protest.

 

[Bellow]

OR CLC has been clever and stipulated a ‘Poor Performance Clause’ in his contract like MV is rumoured to have at Red Bull. (Although very unlikely that Ferrari would agree to such a thing.)

There would have been a draft copy from 2014 - the one SV used to escape to Ferrari.