Fight back!!

[Dieselman]

I obviously wasted my time and effort.

Bothering to do these charts...
This is diesel costs thoughout the EU. Our diesel is indeed the most expensive in the EU but not by the massive margin some make out and certainly not by anything like as wide a margin as it used to be due to other countries increasing the tax on diesel to bring parity.
The tax across the Eu is meant to be level by 2010.

You should be able to see this in the chart.

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=549714&postcount=72

Petrol drivers should think themselves lucky, we don't have the most expensive petrol in the UK, Holland does and we are beaten into 9th place by Holland, Belgium, Germany, Finland, Portugal, Italy, denmark and France.

So it's not all one sided.

 

[scumbag]

Not you as well...

Bad wording.

I meant the price is nothing to do withthe petroluem companies in general. They will sell for as low as they can once the have covered there costs and added profit in.

But they don't add 67p worth of profit per ltr.

And the government is on a motor bashing campaign now. So they will let it rise as it stops you using it, thus reducing the emission.

They will make a rebate to commercial operators when it breaks through some barrier or other.


The point about the original post blames the petroluem companies.


That is exactly the same as boycotting Mercedes as they are too expensive, and we won't buy one until they drop the price.

Total nonsense.

 

[evdok]

I always use this site: http://www.petrolprices.com to get the cheapest I can - and it's NEVER BP or ESSO anyway

Cheapest is not the best quality I'd rather pay the difference and have trouble free motoring.

 

[Dieselman]

I meant the price is nothing to do withthe petroluem companies in general. They will sell for as low as they can once the have covered there costs and added profit in.

But they don't add 67p worth of profit per ltr.

And the government is on a motor bashing campaign now. So they will let it rise as it stops you using it, thus reducing the emission.

Fuel companies sell at a price the market will bear as opposed to the minimum. Ironically due to the higher tax of diesel in the UK the fuel companies sell the basic product cheaper here than any other EU country.

BUT..there is a school of thought that says oil companies lump all their operating costs onto road fuel to make that appear expensive, meanwhile making total profit on other oil products.

A bit of creating accountancy going on there.

Retailers make about 4p per litre I believe but the oil companies make significantly more and a high oil price helps them as they use a multiplication of base cost as their selling price, so if oil goes up their profits go up dramatically.

Taxation on road fuel has gone up in line with inflation, so approx 25% in 10 years whereas the retail price has gone up 250% in the same period.

The taxation element of road fuel is now lower than it has ever been as a percentage.

 

[st4]

oil is rising in price fast and this is reflected in what we see in our fourcourts. Not so long ago it was $50/barrell, now its $115ish and a few weeks back it was $100/barrell.

@ 67p litre of duty the government could if it wanted cuishon the public from the very fast rises in fuel prices by cutting duty. The government takes a fixed price/per litre sold, not a % (apart from VAT) so its take really isn't going up that much.

However 67p is absoultely disgraceful profiteering, and all the motorist should be paying is 17.5% VAT.

The government has a duty of care to its electorate, and it should be cutting its excessive fuel duty, probably by around 20p to start with to cuishon the blow's that rising oil prices are having.

Oil is a heavily traded commoditry, now the fund manager types have sniffed it out as a money making exercise it will increase in price. Like the new Grains ETF funds that are out, these basic every day commodities will rise in price.

 

[Dieselman]

@ 67p litre of duty the government could if it wanted cuishon the public from the very fast rises in fuel prices by cutting duty. The government takes a fixed price/per litre sold, not a % (apart from VAT) so its take really isn't going up that much.

Nice idea and I'd love to see cheap fuel, but...

Where will all the value lost revenue come from.?

The Government/Chancellor/Tax man needs a certain amount of money per annum, which has to come from somewhere.

Only PART of that comes from the motorist and they are in the fortunate position that they can directly control their expenditure in this area.

 

[DaveK]

'The Government/Chancellor/Tax man needs a certain amount of money per annum, which has to come from somewhere.'
The operative word here being ' certain ".

I can't see how any one can spend more and more and expect it to just come rolling in from people who say ' ok, fair enough " for ever.

 

[Dieselman]

I can't see how any one can spend more and more and expect it to just come rolling in from people who say ' ok, fair enough " for ever.

Not usual for us to agree Dave, but....

 

[scumbag]

Retailers make about 4p per litre I believe but the oil companies make significantly more and a high oil price helps them as they use a multiplication of base cost as their selling price, so if oil goes up their profits go up dramatically.

.

we are still back to the main thrust of the original post, in that, the oil companies will be hurt if we target a few. They wont. it will make no difference. They are not responsible for the price of oil.

Their profits are incidental to this issue. They are running a business and doing it right.

BP and ESSO are not the same. Boycotting them will not hurt the industry at all, and will not make any difference to the price of petrol here.

It will just put people out of business and out of work. It will have no positive benefit at all.

it is a ridiculous idea.

 

[Dieselman]

Correct, especially as the profits oil companies make comes from the drilling and refining.

And given that different companies trade oil and fuel it wouldn't hurt them one bit as they would just sell via a different retailer.

Even the major companies trade a lot of oil between themselves.

 

[television]

'The Government/Chancellor/Tax man needs a certain amount of money per annum, which has to come from somewhere.'
The operative word here being ' certain ".

.

Me too and I agree having lived abroad for 15 years, the petrol was expensive but the roads never had any traffic jams so the fuel cost where much cheaper in proportion, the house I had was only one third in cost of the equivalent here in the UK, and the Salmon was dead cheap and better, so the fuel was 20% more expensive than here. At the end of the day its how much left in your pocket at the end of your working week

 

[Ade B]

I read earlier oil at $126 a barrel due to demand from speculative buying?

Having temporarily wrecked the housing market, are the hedge funds now about to get their teeth into the petroleum industry?

Was the global economy always this sensitive to the actions of banks?


Ade (without much knowledge of economics).

 

[Dieselman]

Was the global economy always this sensitive to the actions of banks?

Investors, not Banks.

and yes it was, but due to technology what used to take weeks now takes minutes.

 

[DaveK]

Lets just hope some one gets their fingers burnt.

 

[Satch]

This is where the money for a litre of Diesel retailing @£1.20 goes:

Product 35p

Retailer/Delivery 9p

Duty 57p

VAT 19p

So 76p in tax on a product that costs 44p, which gives a 173% effective tax rate.

Which of course you buy out of income that has already been taxed.

Built into the product price is Petroleum Revenue Tax. Our grasping Treasury smugly spouts this:

"Unlike hydrocarbon oil duty and VAT, the impact of petroleum revenue tax on petrol prices cannot be determined, because it is a tax on company profits rather than retail sales, and a significant proportion of UK offshore oil and gas production subject to the tax is exported."

Perhaps we ought to have a General Outrage thread. In fact I think I shall start one now.

 

[normanr]

Where's the extra tax coming from don't you read the papers and listen to the news.

Excessive road fund licence being implemented,tax put on flights to supposedly stop people flying using global warming as an excuse.

They know the English are pussy-cats and take it all lying down.

Just try to work out how much that is going to bring in (the mind boggles) add to that all the extra expense we all have this year community charge,mortgages,food etc etc etc.

 

[Dieselman]

This is where the money for a litre of Diesel retailing @£1.20 goes:

Product 35p

Retailer/Delivery 9p

Duty 57p

VAT 19p

So 76p in tax on a product that costs 44p, which gives a 173% effective tax rate.

Where are those figures from.?
In March the basic price of a litre of diesel was 46p.

The total tax is 66.7p
And fuel duty is 50.35p.

The 2ppl tax increase is held back until October.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/budget2007/bn53.htm

 

[Dieselman]

Where's the extra tax coming from don't you read the papers and listen to the news.

Against my better judgment I do, but I cut out the political c**p.

Excessive road fund licence being implemented,tax put on flights to supposedly stop people flying using global warming as an excuse.

Seems reasonable. Flying at present is unreasonably cheap comparitvely and definately causes envirnonmental problems.

Fuel tax on aviation fuel. Imagine how much that would bring into the public coffers..

Just try to work out how much that is going to bring in (the mind boggles) add to that all the extra expense we all have this year community charge,mortgages,food etc etc etc.

Not sure what that thas to do with motoring.?

To keep this motoring related, what about all the drivers whose car tax has GONE DOWN as a result of the emissions bandings.?

 

[television]

To keep this motoring related, what about all the drivers whose car tax has GONE DOWN as a result of the emissions banding's.?

What cars have gone down, I do not follow all of these post, just curious

 

[PXW]

The bare fuel price will increase inline with refined product prices (which is a commoditised market - individual product differentiation is achieved by way of additive packages). When working out the tax component, you take the fuel market price, plus distribution/retailer costs, plus profit (if any), add on the 48.35 pence per litre, then add VAT on the whole sum - so you pay VAT on the tax as well.

Oilcos, as other have said, make very little on fuel sales. I recall a time not long ago when they would make more on the mars bar you picked up at the kiosk than on the tankful of fuel.

Because the market is commoditised, the oilcos actually have relatively little control over the product price (unless they take massive speculative positions in oil product derivatives). Worth bearing in mind though that diesel and heating fule and JetA1 all come from the same refinery product cut...so apart form oil prices, there is some genuine demand/supply effect in there too.