Formula 1 Predictions

[scumbag]

Nigel Mansell invited me up to his Golf Club way before it was opened up to a Formula 1 type area. He actually has his old Williams Honda (with engine)

seems my invite got lost in the post! as has any of his christmas cards he may have sent me! and to think, i spent all my money going to watch him race, and win too. I still think he was/is the best there has ever been.

 

[PJH]

Nick Hidefelt! called them BRM today. B****** Rubbish Motors. something Merc owners have known for a long time? I mean, how many championships have BMW won? obviously discounting anything in the DTM or the McLaren F1 car, and in fact, anything else BMW have been involved with as it happens.

just loading it all in my favour!

Williams-BMW won Championships, but BMW-Williams never did.

 

[glojo]

seems my invite got lost in the post! as has any of his christmas cards he may have sent me! and to think, i spent all my money going to watch him race, and win too. I still think he was/is the best there has ever been.

I'm not saying Nigel was big headed........ But

 

[scumbag]

Williams-BMW won Championships, but BMW-Williams never did.

yep. they got 1400bhp out of some 1.5ltr turbo F1 engine in about 1982 or soemthing as well. i believe they make motorbikes now!

 

[blassberg]

the wings, it seems, are flexing in the higher speed areas.

I noticed the ferrari front wings move about 5-10mm away from the body on the straights and rejoin as the speed decreses for corners - is that allowed??

 

[glojo]

I noticed the ferrari front wings move about 5-10mm away from the body on the straights and rejoin as the speed decreses for corners - is that allowed??

Spot on, but the real clever bit is that there was only a front pin holding this wing into the bodywork??? As a lay person I would guess that the wing can 'rotate' (non technical term) on the axis of this and obviously the wing will streamline itself to form the line of least resistance? I wonder if when it slows down the wing re-locates and becomes a 'solid' fixture?

The FIA have stated they want to see a different front wing at Australia???? Wow.. that is a real punishment, clearly far worse than that dished out to BAR-Honda.

If the Ferrari front wing is illegal, they should be punished, if it is not, then they should be allowed to use it. Likewise the rear wing of both the Ferrari, and the McLaren. Both teams should be fully investigated and punished.

John

 

[glojo]

Yes true, whatever THEY want to call the team, we know which one we mean.

As Scumbag has already highlighted. I wonder if this is a marketing ploy, taking advantage of royalties, or other infringement on a registered name.

The official name for the team was Williams-BMW. All this trivia was sold with the name BMW.WilliamsF1 Team. Clearly completely different????

John the very Inquisitive

 

[saorbust]

As Scumbag has already highlighted. I wonder if this is a marketing ploy, taking advantage of royalties, or other infringement on a registered name.

The official name for the team was Williams-BMW. All this trivia was sold with the name BMW.WilliamsF1 Team. Clearly completely different????

John the very Inquisitive

Yes. The offical name is the one entered with the FIA, ie, Williams BMW. This is how the points etc are recorded.
However the team can also sell various parts of the rights to the name to the title sponsor - in this case BMW - hence the BMW Williams F1 Team.

 

[saorbust]

If the Ferrari front wing is illegal, they should be punished, if it is not, then they should be allowed to use it. Likewise the rear wing of both the Ferrari, and the McLaren. Both teams should be fully investigated and punished.

John

Why ?!

With F1, if its not specifically against the rule, then the team do an interpretation of it - which is usually pre-checked. I'm a Ferrari fan, so I admit bias, but look at it this way - at least TWO teams did something original.

McLaren lost a couple of wings and points - but did try it. Poor Kimi. Ferrari took it slightly further, and are marginally more succesful.

The wording within the rules is 'within the spirit of the regulations'. Typically this means its an unfair bias - but its designed not to restrict innovation either.

Situations like this have happened before. BMW with Turbo engines for example. The other teams accepted it, since they didn't believe it could work. Until the car went like a nutter and wiped them out. They banned it the following year.

I suspect in this case, the other teams just don't like the idea. But banning them is a little extreme - F1 is meant to be about technical innovation and excellence - and this does mean new and creative ideas. Bring them on.

 

[glojo]

Why ?!

Situations like this have happened before. BMW with Turbo engines for example. The other teams accepted it, since they didn't believe it could work. Until the car went like a nutter and wiped them out. They banned it the following year.

I think a better example might have been a certain team belonging to a Mr Ecclestone that developed a fan that extracted air from under the car.

I totally agree about pushing the limits of any law, do you believe that the front wing falls within that definition? If so then Ferrari should appeal.


Ferrari Fan
Ferrari have always been a team that I have admired and respected. Villeneuve, Lauda and Mansell being just three drivers that I really enjoyed watching.

Unfortunately Ross Braun is in my very humble opinion one of the leading figures in Formula 1, but he seems to have no respect for the honour of either is reputation, or that of the sport. When he was at Benetton, he 'forgot' the car still had illegal software on-board that operated the traction control!!! At Ferrari he fitted illegal barge boards that were supplied by an outside contractor, the list goes on, and the front wing we saw this week-end appeared to be designed to MOVE at high speed??? Flexing is one thing, designed movement is a completely different ball game. No doubt he will play with the words.

What is your take on the front wing?

John

 

[saorbust]

I think a better example might have been a certain team belonging to a Mr Ecclestone that developed a fan that extracted air from under the car.

I totally agree about pushing the limits of any law, do you believe that the front wing falls within that definition? If so then Ferrari should appeal.


Ferrari Fan
Ferrari have always been a team that I have admired and respected. Villeneuve, Lauda and Mansell being just three drivers that I really enjoyed watching.

Unfortunately Ross Braun is in my very humble opinion one of the leading figures in Formula 1, but he seems to have no respect for the honour of either is reputation, or that of the sport. When he was at Benetton, he 'forgot' the car still had illegal software on-board that operated the traction control!!! At Ferrari he fitted illegal barge boards that were supplied by an outside contractor, the list goes on, and the front wing we saw this week-end appeared to be designed to MOVE at high speed??? Flexing is one thing, designed movement is a completely different ball game. No doubt he will play with the words.

What is your take on the front wing?

John

Good call on the example

Re the front wing. I did notice it on the on-board camera shots - I thought 'bloody hell thats clever'. Legal ? Don't know. Within the spirit of the rules ? Maybe.

Its all very clever use of new materials and so on. I don't know if its flexing, I don't know if its not securely attached, I'm not sure. I'd argue all parts flex at some point, especially Aero.

Damm we can see how this is a can of worms.....

 

[glojo]

I'd argue all parts flex at some point, especially Aero.

Damm we can see how this is a can of worms.....

Totally agree and thank goodness they do.

I'm glad it is not just me that appreciated the design skill that went into developing that front wing. My whole point here is that it was a deliberate attempt to flout the rule.

It appears to be designed to move.......... That is surely in contravention of quite a few rules???

John

 

[Rose Chap]

My problem is not with the innovation in creating this 'moving' wing surface, but its the fact that its Ferrari are doing it and getting away with it despite the complaints of the other teams.

Any other team would have unquestionably been punished, whereas Ferrari just get an under the table "don't do that lads".

F1 is most definitely about pushing the limits, but lets not forget that when Mercedes Benz (Ilmor) came up with new cylinder linings which yielded greater performance; Ferrari made a massive fuss about it containing carcinogins and successfully lobbied the FIA leading to this technology to be banned.

One rule for Maranello and another rule for everyone else.

 

[Ian B Walker]

One rule for Maranello and another rule for everyone else.

Just makes you wonder how much input bernie and max have in "that" team

 

[glojo]

My problem is not with the innovation in creating this 'moving' wing surface, but its the fact that its Ferrari are doing it and getting away with it despite the complaints of the other teams.

Moving wings are a very big no, no, I can though understand where your coming from, but trust me, the Ferrari lobby will just accuse you of being anti Ferrari. Moseley might be the 'Head man' but solely to be shot at. If you look very closely there are fine strands that are pulled by Mr Formula 1.

Last season Moseley admitted to watching the great majority of the races on TV. He certainly did NOT say he watched all the races, Ecclestone will sometimes say "I consulted with Max, and he disagreed" That means........ I have said no, but don't blame me, blame Max Moseley!!!!

Ferrari are in my opinion to close to the management, they are a team and should be treated exactly the same as any other competitor.

I was a great Ferrari supporter and hopefully if Rossi makes the transition, I will go back to supporting them.

Soarbust,
What is your take on Massa being allowed to finish in front of the number one driver??

John

 

[Ian B Walker]

What is your take on Massa being allowed to finish in front of the number one driver??

John

Shock, horror His career is doomed before it starts. haveing the ofrontry to pass and keep infront of Mr Premadona will do him no good. Whats the betting that his car underperforms in Oz

 

[saorbust]

Soarbust,
What is your take on Massa being allowed to finish in front of the number one driver??

John

Lets just say I hope he has someone testing his pasta before he has his first bite.....

As for Ferrari being seen favourably - probably. Maybe being Italian they can lobby better. I've seen Ross do some incredible stupid things - the barge boards I thought v funny, and a total shambles. But then Michellin last year at the US, again stupid. We all make mistakes, and sometimes I wish they didn't do what they do.

BUT - I love them because they are pure - they only want to win (okay, one driver to win). And sod everything that comes in the way. Thats the spirit I like.

Yes Renault are great - they really let everyone go for it. Thats the way to win a Manufacturer title without doubt. But drivers ? Perhaps not. Witness this week versus last week.

And so forth....

Ferrari have done some incredibly stupid things in the past. So have the other teams. Its what makes it all so much fun. As for being close to the FIA, well I think they all are...in various ways....

 

[glojo]

Lets just say I hope he has someone testing his pasta before he has his first bite......

I reckon it has taken one race for Massa to suss out the best tactics....

Avoid pit stops

It has always been the Ferrari way to control races. Note how often problems seem to arise on the number two car. Eddie Irvine could EASILY have been a World Champion the season the number one driver broke his leg.

Ferrari however deemed it unnecessary to have any type of team orders???? and the replacement driver took points off of Irvine (by finishing in front of him) when this did not work and Irvine was the lead Ferrari the tyre man whose job it was to actually carry a tyre forgot to come out with one!!!!

Massa I reckon took all previous unfortunate accidents into account and decided to stay out and only have the one stop It was brilliant, but somehow I reckon it will not happen again???

Oh to be a fly on the wall!!

John

 

[blassberg]

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=35330&PO=35330

The teams ask for clearer wing regs

 

[Steg]

Just makes you wonder how much input bernie and max have in "that" team

It could be that Bernie is looking for more than an input.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=27355