Gearbox service confusion

[Sparkee]

Hi.

My w213 e63s seams to have the stop start jerkness in slow moving traffic, having read up on this seams to be fairly common with c/e63's.

So anyhow decided to treat her to a gear box service at an independent. When the indy opened up the box they found some metallic stuffs stuck to the magnets, I've attached photos. From what I've read there should have been a gearbox service after run in, which I've confirmed with Mercedes didn't happen. So we opted for a quick refill and then will be drained and fully serviced after about 400miles. The idea being that if anymore bits should show up its due to a bigger issue and not just the run in stuffs left behind. Warranty should cover any expensive issues so at this point not overly concerned.

I've tried to find more information about refill oil amounts and service intervals but I'm confused.

How much oil does the gearbox need to refill?
As its a 9g mct box does the wet clutch need oil? If so how much?
I've seen details that range from 5l to 10l.
Mb quoted me a total of 8l
Also a bit confused with the torque converter/ mct differances to be honest, I'm not a mechanic so any info on this would be helpful to me so I can understand a bit better.



Thanks

 

[Skd884]

Very certain no mb requires an atf service after running in period.

 

[Sparkee]

Very certain no mb requires an atf service after running in period.

If read all kinda stuffs about engine and atf oil changes after running in, this is why I'm confused. Along with atf amounts, there seams to be many contradictory bits of information out there.

 

[Skd884]

If read all kinda stuffs about engine and atf oil changes after running in, this is why I'm confused. Along with atf amounts, there seams to be many contradictory bits of information out there.

Consult your manual if you have one that will educate you.

 

[W1ghty]

By “Indy “ I take it you mean normal garage rather than MB Indy specialist ? Because they would know .

 

[Tobes]

I know on my GLA 220d 4matic with a 9g auto box there is a fairly complex refill procedure, requiring Star/xentry to measure temperatures / purge the system and a dipstick that needs to be purchased. It needs to be refilled to within 0.5-1mm on the dipstick so very sensitive! Additional oil additives are also required in some of the AMG versions. I've been looking into it as planning to do it myself...

 

[Sparkee]

By “Indy “ I take it you mean normal garage rather than MB Indy specialist ? Because they would know .

No, it's a mb only garage. The information I'm getting from both them and mb plus online seams contradictory, hence me asking. Give me some wiring and im all good, never been that good with moving bits..

 

[Petrol Pete]

An MCT transmission does not have a torque converter so I would guess that it contains a few litres les than one that does have a TC It would probably have the same cooling lines and 'radiator' as a non MCT transmission.

An MB indy really should know.

Mercedes-AMG's MCT Transmission Explained In Layman's Terms

Mercedes-AMG's latest creation, the 2017 E63, comes with the AMG Speedshift MCT transmission. At this point, some of you are wondering what is it. We explain

www.autoevolution.com

 

[Sparkee]

An MCT transmission does not have a torque converter so I would guess that it contains a few litres les than one that does have a TC It would probably have the same cooling lines and 'radiator' as a non MCT transmission.

An MB indy really should know.

Mercedes-AMG's MCT Transmission Explained In Layman's Terms

Mercedes-AMG's latest creation, the 2017 E63, comes with the AMG Speedshift MCT transmission. At this point, some of you are wondering what is it. We explain

www.autoevolution.com

Thank you.

 

[philnewmerc]

All conjecture from me but this is an interesting case so I will put forth my two penneth

As far as I can see the MCT gearbox is a normal automatic minus the torque converter at the input, i.e. between engine output and input to gearbox. The MCT bit is new technology (in this application) where a clutch is used and not a TC, very much like a wet clutch on a motorbike. The evidence you mention is 1) slow driving jerkiness and 2) metal swarf type debris on the magnetic pickup. The MCT clutch consists of alternate plates of metal plate then and clutch plate, several times over - they all slide together in use and the 'wet' oil keeps it running cool and disperses wear debris to the filter away from the clutch to keep it from gumming up. The metal debris on the magnet, though, must come from somewhere - but where? Assuming the g/box oil is shared with the clutch oil it could come from: a) the MCT clutch, b) the various gear changing clutches in the g/box (all wet multi plate clutches too) or 3) some other thing like a failing bearing or gear. Since you have not mentioned unusual noises and the slow speed jerkiness (when the MCT clutch will be mainly operating) I'd suggest a failing MCT may be the issue and some metal-metal contact is now occurring due to excessive wear. The wet multi plate clutch is well-proven in motorbikes and auto boxes but not in very heavy powerful cars. If there have been lots of fast starts with clutch slip like launch control events then that will shorten the clutch life considerably. My personal opinion of clutches (wet or dry) is that they should be treated like an on/off switch, i.e. feed in power gently and quickly, only then nail it. To do otherwise will definitely make the clutch a frequent wear and tear item (like on race cars). A TC on the other hand, is designed to slip quite happily (and modern ones lock up for efficiency).

 

[Petrol Pete]

OP . You do not mention how many miles/age of the car .

 

[Petrol Pete]

Tasos knows his stuff .

What he is showing here is wear in the barrel where the clutch plates land (two minutes in) this is common in old or poorly maintained motorcycles (same concept) and causes 'grabby' shifting . probably not what you have going on (aluminium filings will not stick to the magnets) but worth a quick look just for info , not an MCT here I believe.

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[Sparkee]

OP . You do not mention how many miles/age of the car .

19500 now, 8200 when I bought it in May 23. 2019 registered

 

[philnewmerc]

Many full-power launches?

 

[Sparkee]

I've done 2, after I first got it and tbh it was too fast for me so not done any since. As too the 8000miles before my ownership I don't know, seamed to have been looked after and serviced, but you never know.
only thing was it did have a small seep of oil on the gearbox sump, wasnt picked up at the service in may so i guess it has happened since, when it was drained it had 5lts of oil.

 

[sgregory124]

I've done 2, after I first got it and tbh it was too fast for me so not done any since. As too the 8000miles before my ownership I don't know, seamed to have been looked after and serviced, but you never know.
only thing was it did have a small seep of oil on the gearbox sump, wasnt picked up at the service in may so i guess it has happened since, when it was drained it had 5lts of oil.

The 213 E63/S needs a gearbox oil change every 31k or 3 years, so technically speaking, you are overdue by 1 year. Interesting there are metal shavings present after less than 20k though - sounds like the car might have had some past abuse, but then i'm certainly no expert.

 

[W1ghty]

That’s a lot of metal shavings on a magnet , I’ve done 3-4 changes on each of my cars (now 130+100k ) and never seen anything like that .

 

[OneForTheRoad]

There was less metal shavings in the plug hole ,after this lass shaved herself in the shower.

 

[philnewmerc]

I've done 2, after I first got it and tbh it was too fast for me so not done any since. As too the 8000miles before my ownership I don't know, seamed to have been looked after and serviced, but you never know.
only thing was it did have a small seep of oil on the gearbox sump, wasnt picked up at the service in may so i guess it has happened since, when it was drained it had 5lts of oil.

Imho it's either a fault or multiple launch controls. As a betting man I'd say the mct wet clutch due to abusive fast starts, considering the evidence presented

 

[Sparkee]

Now booked in to mercedes for them to diagnose cause of the metal bits, service manage seams to think much the same, its the clutch and will likely need new gearbox etc. Warranty will hopefully come to the rescue, other wise will be about 8 to 9k and some tears . Knew the bills were gonna be large with what will be my last petrol car, but I'd rather pay up now than get a tesla in all honesty.