Head gasket/poor repair-who should pay?

[Smarties]

Hello fellow members and forum watchers. Just wondering if you would be so good as to contribute your thoughts on the following: My Dads 1996 C200 Auto (W202) 98000 miles, has become a real pain in the backside and money pit. It started 12 months ago when he noticed it was losing coolant/water and had to top up the bottle every so often. You guessed it, over the course of a month or so he noticed oil in his coolant. So he took it to his local workshop.
They said that the oil in the water was the wrong colour for engine oil and it was from the transmission oil cooler/ radiator. A new rad was ordered and fitted for approx £250.
All was well for a few months until in October 09, once again there was oil in the water that had this time turned to porridge. Car returned to the workshop, and this time Cylinder head/gasket was diagnosed. The head was stripped, sent off for it’s obligatory skimming, and eventually the car was returned with a bill for £850…job done. Or so we thought.
Last month, the car failed its MOT on emissions (first time my Dad has EVER had an MOT fail), even thought a full exhaust system and new catalyst was fitted less than a year ago. However, it was found that the C02 oxygen sensor had failed, possibly attributed to being fowled by the oil in water scenario. A new sensor fitted and all was well…or so we thought.
Last week, alerted by the amber glow of his low coolant warning light, and looking into his radiator, he found…oil in his water!!
The workshop are now saying to return it for them to look at, and horror of horrors, it maybe that the cylinder head is cracked!!
This is all on a car that covers approx 800 (yes eight hundred) miles a year, and has happened in those 800 miles. It has never been cooked or overheated during my Dad’s ownership (6 years), is serviced every year using fully synthetic oil, and is a genuinely pampered and very bright example.
Now to the nub of the question. Who should be paying for any subsequent work? as in my estimation, if the head has failed for whatever reason in 800 miles/10 months, is this acceptable? Even if it is found that the head is cracked, should the workshop or the people they sent it off to for machining/skimming 7 months ago not have tested and found this? Thanks for sticking with me, and your thoughts and contributions will be very much appreciated.

 

[EDZ649]

Sorry to hear about your Dads woes.

Not all garages will get the heads crack tested, very often they just do a visual check unless you have specifically asked them to get it tested. However you could argue that as a layperson they should advise you to get it crack tested.

As for who should pay, I would like to think that any respectable garage would guarantee their work for at least a year.

It might be worth getting a friend to phone them up with a hypathetical head gasket query and ask what guarantee they would give and if they get the heads crack tested...

 

[Will]

All sounds a bit odd to be honest.

If the engine is definately leaking/losing oil or coolant through the HG/head then it'll have to come off regardless. Once the head is off you can properly assess the damage.

Ignoring any legalities etc, if the head was skimmed/tested/fitted by them and they supplied all the parts then I'd think that there would be some offer of goodwill at the very least for the subsequent repair job.

Can't see how they can say that the head is cracked with any certainty until it's off the car - could be that the replacement gasket had a fault, or was fitted poorly etc.

Anyway up, it's not usual to replace a HG and then have to remove the head 7 months/800 miles later.

 

[jaymanek]

are you sure the oil isnt just left over from when the job was done? It is very very difficult to remove all traces of oil from coolant when doing a head gasket and over a few months all the remaining oil will collect in the expansion tank.

 

[Will]

are you sure the oil isnt just left over from when the job was done? It is very very difficult to remove all traces of oil from coolant when doing a head gasket and over a few months all the remaining oil will collect in the expansion tank.

I would agree Jay, as you say traces of oil in the system can be difficult to remove. But he says that the coolant level is dropping too (low level warning came on)?

 

[grober]

Its one of these how long is a piece of string questions. There was a cylinder head bolt stretch problem with these early twin cam 4 cylinder engines which was a cause of CHG failure. When the cylinder head gasket was first renewed did the garage replace the bolts? They should have- bad practice not do do so! Check on your Dad's invoice Sometimes machining the head may weaken it if the casting is particularly thin but this might not be obvious. The head on my 111 2.2 litre engine had to be welded to repair it prior to skimming so I guess there's not much metal in some places. Until the head is removed its all speculation really but don't just take their word for it that its cracked have a look yourself. Another tip is to only use a Mercedes supplied cylinder head gasket-nothing else. Like the CH bolts the extra cost is negligible compared to the labour involved.

 

[Smarties]

are you sure the oil isnt just left over from when the job was done? It is very very difficult to remove all traces of oil from coolant when doing a head gasket and over a few months all the remaining oil will collect in the expansion tank.

Hi jaymanek, Thanks for your response. That's what I thought. Just going on what my Dad is telling me, having had to top up the radiator when the low coolant light came on, and found 'thick' oil in it, and what the workshop has now said to him that it might be.

 

[crockers]

Surely it's now getting to the stage that the car isn't economical to repair?? Sad I know....

 

[Smarties]

Surely it's now getting to the stage that the car isn't economical to repair?? Sad I know....

There is a saying, ‘the cheapest car is the one you already own’. And whilst my Dad could well buy a new/newer model (I shamefully had suggested it back during the governments scrappage scheme), he loves this one to bits, and older MB’s in general. He doesn’t begrudge throwing some money at it to keep it in fine fettle, only cheesed off by this ‘reoccurring’ fault.

 

[Merc Owner 2B]

Have the cooling system pressure tested before you touch anything. You may have an unrelated leak and be seeing "old" oil in the tank as has already been suggested.

Again, genuine gasket? Replaced head bolts with genuine parts? Properly torqued down?

Test the coolant for combustion gasses, although I believe this only works for petrol engines?

 

[ringway]

There was a cylinder head bolt stretch problem with these early twin cam 4 cylinder engines which was a cause of CHG failure. When the cylinder head gasket was first renewed did the garage replace the bolts? They should have- bad practice not do do so!

An important point.

Unfortunately, the average Jo Bloggs garage wouldn't necessarily know about that problem and may have innocently made a hash of things. Perhaps Smarties could blind them with science by asking that question.

If the work was carried out by a specialist MB indy then they should know their onions and act accordingly.

Is there any point getting an inspection/second opinion before the original workshop sees the car again?


Gather as much information as possible on this forum before talking to the garage again.

Best of luck.

 

[Smarties]

Thanks so far. I have found the invoice which reads as follows: Labour Description. Head Gasket; Strip, Crack Test & Skim, Re Assemble. Run Up & Test. Flush Engine Oil System & Radiator. Parts. Head Test & Skim, Head Set, Head Bolts, Oil Filter, Flushing Oil, Engine Oil, Antifreeze, Plugs.

 

[Will]

Well - that sounds quite detailed and thorough. If they have fitted new head bolts, checked the head for cracks/trueness and assembled it properly it is unusual for a failure in this time frame.

I'd say you have a better case than most for a substatial contribution/FOC repair. Have you asked the garage what they advise/suggest in terms of repairs and costs?

Hope it all works out for you

Will

 

[Smarties]

are you sure the oil isnt just left over from when the job was done? It is very very difficult to remove all traces of oil from coolant when doing a head gasket and over a few months all the remaining oil will collect in the expansion tank.

That's what it appears to have been. System drained a few weeks ago and so far so good Thanks Guys.

 

[jaymanek]

great!