HelP!!! W163: Engine shut down in the middle of the road, wouldn't start up again..but finally did!

[Smiley]

You have at least bought the car for very sensible money. Some pay more than that to repair Nox sensors. If it were me I would firstly take it to a local Mot tester for a "pre mot" specifically to look at the rust and welding requirements. If it is really bad then sell it on. If it is repairable to a decent standard for a few hundred quid then I would investigate the running problem and see if that can be sorted for sensible money. The 2.7 lump is very good and if you can get it sorted for a total of £2k then you've done well. You will need to spend money on any 20 yr old car.
Btw it is unlikely to be the cause in this case.....but may be good to eliminate it ......diesel cars left unused can suffer from algae in the fuel - it is more common on marine fuel tanks, google "diesel bug". The algae will block the fuel filter.

 

[Dickster]

Have you fixed the key issue? I only mention it as my SL55 developed a very rough running and cutting out issue whilst 20 miles from home. I managed to limp home and park up in the garage. Next time I went to start the car the key wouldn’t do anything.

Anyway, two new keys later and the car was running fine again. The original key was failing to talk to the ignition switch and caused the rough running.

Just a thought.

 

[DexterML]

Have you fixed the key issue? I only mention it as my SL55 developed a very rough running and cutting out issue whilst 20 miles from home. I managed to limp home and park up in the garage. Next time I went to start the car the key wouldn’t do anything.

Anyway, two new keys later and the car was running fine again. The original key was failing to talk to the ignition switch and caused the rough running.

Just a thought.

Hello Dickster

I don't think it was similar to your case. The key kept trying to start the engine, the starter motor was turning. The engine wouldn't fire up.

 

[DexterML]

You have at least bought the car for very sensible money. Some pay more than that to repair Nox sensors. If it were me I would firstly take it to a local Mot tester for a "pre mot" specifically to look at the rust and welding requirements. If it is really bad then sell it on. If it is repairable to a decent standard for a few hundred quid then I would investigate the running problem and see if that can be sorted for sensible money. The 2.7 lump is very good and if you can get it sorted for a total of £2k then you've done well. You will need to spend money on any 20 yr old car.
Btw it is unlikely to be the cause in this case.....but may be good to eliminate it ......diesel cars left unused can suffer from algae in the fuel - it is more common on marine fuel tanks, google "diesel bug". The algae will block the fuel filter.

Good morning Smiley

That makes absolute sense. My mechanic already told me it is not a job he would like to get involved with (hint maybe?) .. so I will try to take it to my MOT centre as soon as I replace the crank sensor and put in a new fuel filter, just in case it fixes the engine cutting out problem.

"You need to spend money on any 20 year old car" - true, but some are worse than others it seems.

 

[DexterML]

Right, I asked my mechanic again about the rust/corrosion.

He said and I quote "Mostly body, but the front chassis isn't far behind, shocks, springs, all suspension components are seriously corroded"

I will try to snap a photo later -when the storm quiets down a bit- to share with you guys...

 

[m80]

I'm not sue but didn't think 2.7 CDI's had the tank lift pump. That means you need a damn good battery to pull he fuel through.

But a blocked filter from diesel bug wouldn't restart.
The restart after a cooling period indicates the CPS, change that 1st.

MOT! Didn't you say the brake lines were all corroded? Aside from the risk if they're weakened you are wasting money on an MOT till done. I'm sure your mechy is superb, but why change callipers and not rusty brake pipes, you've now to double the bleeding efforts.

I have no issue with earlier motors being run, and run, but my instincts tell me to let this one RIP.

 

[Petrol Pete]

Seriously , just let it go. I can't see this ending well for your wallet.

 

[DexterML]

I'm not sue but didn't think 2.7 CDI's had the tank lift pump. That means you need a damn good battery to pull he fuel through.

But a blocked filter from diesel bug wouldn't restart.
The restart after a cooling period indicates the CPS, change that 1st.

MOT! Didn't you say the brake lines were all corroded? Aside from the risk if they're weakened you are wasting money on an MOT till done. I'm sure your mechy is superb, but why change callipers and not rusty brake pipes, you've now to double the bleeding efforts.

I have no issue with earlier motors being run, and run, but my instincts tell me to let this one RIP.

Hello M80
He changed the calipers because I asked him to. So that I could get the car running. He was against doing anything to it and just getting rid of it.

 

[DexterML]

View attachment 124182 Seriously , just let it go. I can't see this ending well for your wallet.

Bless you mate you made me laugh and God knows I needed it ...

 

[Dichtung]

I`m with Dickster.on this. The Electronic Ignition Switch (EIS) could be faulty. It could initiate cranking with no injection Those guys in B`ham could fully test it together with the key.

 

[ChipChop]

Right, I asked my mechanic again about the rust/corrosion.

He said and I quote "Mostly body, but the front chassis isn't far behind, shocks, springs, all suspension components are seriously corroded"

I will try to snap a photo later -when the storm quiets down a bit- to share with you guys...

Sounds par for the course for a 20+ year old Mercedes. A litre or two of Vactan rust convertor (Vactan — Performance Chemicals) applied over this underbody corrosion would stop its progress but it really is all down to how much money you want to pump into a vehicle. Does the engine and gearbox have any issues such as injector leaks, limp mode (EGR?) or less than smooth shifting?

Another alternative is to treat this ML purchase as a learning exercise. You now know what to look for in an ML. Use that knowledge if you decide to sell/ scrap this car when buying your next one. On the subject of scrap you may be surprised how much an ML is worth in metal value as they have 2 catalytic converters fitted as standard.

 

[DrNick]

What is the typical value of a scrap catalytic converter these days (I've got 2 in the garage)

 

[m80]

Does the engine and gearbox have any issues such as injector leaks, limp mode (EGR?) or less than smooth shifting?

Less obvious, but a relatively new concern, is emissions at MOT.
While we can pre inspect so much that unknown can see an otherwise good vehicle effectively written off.

Please don't misunderstand me I'm not suggesting this example is an otherwise good vehicle.

 

[ChipChop]

What is the typical value of a scrap catalytic converter these days (I've got 2 in the garage)

All depends on the precious metal content of the catalytic converters you have. Early cat equipped Japanese cars contained a lot of precious metals apparently. "More platinum than a wedding ring" is a phrase often used to describe these types of high value cats.

 

[DexterML]

Sounds par for the course for a 20+ year old Mercedes. A litre or two of Vactan rust convertor (Vactan — Performance Chemicals) applied over this underbody corrosion would stop its progress but it really is all down to how much money you want to pump into a vehicle. Does the engine and gearbox have any issues such as injector leaks, limp mode (EGR?) or less than smooth shifting?

Another alternative is to treat this ML purchase as a learning exercise. You now know what to look for in an ML. Use that knowledge if you decide to sell/ scrap this car when buying your next one. On the subject of scrap you may be surprised how much an ML is worth in metal value as they have 2 catalytic converters fitted as standard.

I couldn't snap a clear photo, most of what you can see of the frame beams are not that badly corroded from the point of view of laying down on the ground and looking in. The suspension components do look corroded though.

I've just gotten the V5, I know where the car was MOT'd in October the 6th of 2021... I have half a mind to go pay him a visit and ask if the car would pass an MOT today.......

 

[DexterML]

Sounds par for the course for a 20+ year old Mercedes. A litre or two of Vactan rust convertor (Vactan — Performance Chemicals) applied over this underbody corrosion would stop its progress but it really is all down to how much money you want to pump into a vehicle. Does the engine and gearbox have any issues such as injector leaks, limp mode (EGR?) or less than smooth shifting?

Another alternative is to treat this ML purchase as a learning exercise. You now know what to look for in an ML. Use that knowledge if you decide to sell/ scrap this car when buying your next one. On the subject of scrap you may be surprised how much an ML is worth in metal value as they have 2 catalytic converters fitted as standard.

I can't tell chipChop, I have only driven it 3 times. The first when I took it home which was a 10 minute ride, I then insured it properly the next day, took it for a drive and the calipers seized on me.
It seemed to be shifting smoothly, but it also seemed a bit weak in pulling.
It then sat for two weeks while I waited for my appointment with my mechanic. I then took it out for a ride, it seemed to be braking better, still seemed a bit unwilling to pull, and then first the anti spin got engaged for no reason (yaw module?) and then 10 minutes later the engine cut out.

Shifts smooth up to that point, no weird noises from the engine... no lights on the dash...

 

[Petrol Pete]

What is the typical value of a scrap catalytic converter these days (I've got 2 in the garage)

I was offered £100 for a tiny 'Manicat' off of my 1.3 Yaris about 10 months ago . Sent them a phot via whatsapp , they sent me the value back straight away.

Scrapcat 07966 118804

 

[ChipChop]

I can't tell chipChop, I have only driven it 3 times. The first when I took it home which was a 10 minute ride, I then insured it properly the next day, took it for a drive and the calipers seized on me.
It seemed to be shifting smoothly, but it also seemed a bit weak in pulling.
It then sat for two weeks while I waited for my appointment with my mechanic. I then took it out for a ride, it seemed to be braking better, still seemed a bit unwilling to pull, and then first the anti spin got engaged for no reason (yaw module?) and then 10 minutes later the engine cut out.

Shifts smooth up to that point, no weird noises from the engine... no lights on the dash...

If you have not used the car much then it is difficult to know if it is in good mechanical shape. A weak battery will bring up lots of issues on these cars so if possible keep it charged while it is off the road. I would change the CPS (back of engine on bellhousing) and if that solves your crank no start/ cut out issue then start driving it.

If you are nervous about the rust issue take the car for a new MOT. Subtlety mention to the MOT tester it is a body on chassis vehicle not a monocoque and if the test shows it does have rust holes in the chassis then it is more than likely not worth your effort and the expense involved. Surface corrosion however is to be expected on an old car and can be treated as mentioned before.

If you want a really impartial MOT test then use your local councils MOT testing site. They do not do repairs only MOT tests, mostly for taxis they license, and are a good option if you want to know the true state of a car.

 

[DexterML]

If you have not used the car much then it is difficult to know if it is in good mechanical shape. A weak battery will bring up lots of issues on these cars so if possible keep it charged while it is off the road. I would change the CPS (back of engine on bellhousing) and if that solves your crank no start/ cut out issue then start driving it.

If you are nervous about the rust issue take the car for a new MOT. Subtlety mention to the MOT tester it is a body on chassis vehicle not a monocoque and if the test shows it does have rust holes in the chassis then it is more than likely not worth your effort and the expense involved. Surface corrosion however is to be expected on an old car and can be treated as mentioned before.

If you want a really impartial MOT test then use your local councils MOT testing site. They do not do repairs only MOT tests, mostly for taxis they license, and are a good option if you want to know the true state of a car.

Hi ChipChop

The crankshaft position sensor is on its way. I have never been in this situation before, so I am asking. Can I not take it to an MOT shop and ask them to do an inspection on the rust alone and tell me how bad it is, how bad they expect it to be by next October and how much they would need to make it pass the MOT?
I mean do I need to have it tested again ? Will they refuse to inspect the car and give me their verdict ? Are they obliged to only do that if they are testing for an MOT certificate ?

thank you

 

[ChipChop]

Can I not take it to an MOT shop and ask them to do an inspection on the rust alone and tell me how bad it is, how bad they expect it to be by next October and how much they would need to make it pass the MOT?

I suppose that is down to the MOT testing station. Ring around and ask if that is possible and be prepared to pay the MOT fee for their inspection time.
Best of luck.