Mercedes as a brand

[Dryce]

Once upon a time a pin, retaining clip, widget etc would be made from metal so that it never failed. Nowadays it's made from plastic. All the effort these days goes into value engineering.

The things that tend to fail are not simple little clips.

You can't get an O2 sensor or SBC pump or MAF or injector failing in a car that doesn't have one.

And these days we have them. In the 'good old days' we didn't.

 

[gIzzE]

If Mercedes was still making cars the way they used to no one would buy them. They would be too expensive.

 

[markjay]

If Mercedes was still making cars the way they used to no one would buy them. They would be too expensive.

Also, gone are the days when people bought new cars with the intention of keeping them for ten or twenty years. I am sure we all know of a grandfather or great uncle that kept thier cars for a couple of decades or more - very rare nowadays.

In fact this is also true for most other things from furniture to clothing...

 

[gIzzE]

Because we all want something for nothing.


We moved to Norwich in 1976, my old man was with Bally shoes, and the factory was in Norwich, hence the move. We were talking about prices of shoes the other day, someone in our shop was moaning about a pair of soft nappa mocs that were £69.
My old man pointed out that when we moved up here Bally's range of soft nappa mocs were their best selling shoes, and they were £49-59 then, depending on trim etc.
To put that into perspective that was a weeks wage for the guys making them, and probably about the average UK wage.
He said everyone had a pair of shoes at this price for best, wasn't just for the wealthy, that was just expected, if you wanted a really nice pair of shoes that you would keep for years it would be a weeks wages.

Imagine trying to get some to part with £500 for a pair of shoes today, just doesn't happen, unless you love your clobber people just don't want to spend that.

He also paid £34000 for his E Class in 1993, we bought our house for that the same month.
That house is now £200,000, but you can buy the new E Class for for nearly the same money.

 

[johnfromstaffs]

I'm getting pretty dismayed by all this, having traded in my 50,000 mile in six years A4 Avant and bought the C-Class estate. I am expecting to get between 6 and 10 years service out of this car, by which time I shall probably be changing to either an Austin A35 or a Rolls-Royce in black with a two deck estate body and flowers.

Are you all in this for real, saying that the current MB cars are thrown together rot prone junk, or are all of you just trying to upset those of us who are new owners of MB? If you think that the cars are so bad in terms of reliability/durability what will you be buying next, a Kia or a Hyundai? My experience of my car so far is that it is not as well screwed together as the Audi was, but I haven't experienced any broken back springs yet, unlike the Audi, and the local dealer has been efficient so far.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I'm getting pretty dismayed by all this, having traded in my 50,000 mile in six years A4 Avant and bought the C-Class estate. I am expecting to get between 6 and 10 years service out of this car, by which time I shall probably be changing to either an Austin A35 or a Rolls-Royce in black with a two deck estate body and flowers.

Are you all in this for real, saying that the current MB cars are thrown together rot prone junk, or are all of you just trying to upset those of us who are new owners of MB? If you think that the cars are so bad in terms of reliability/durability what will you be buying next, a Kia or a Hyundai? My experience of my car so far is that it is not as well screwed together as the Audi was, but I haven't experienced any broken back springs yet, unlike the Audi, and the local dealer has been efficient so far.

Nostalgia. Nothing more.

The world has changed. Cars have changed. Don't let it change your views of your own car.

Although the generation of cars affected most by rust is a real issue for owners with cars of that period.

 

[The Boss]

If Mercedes was still making cars the way they used to no one would buy them. They would be too expensive.

THEY DID PRETTY WELL IN THE PAST TO HAVE SUCH A BEAUTFUL HISTORY..

It feels that in 50 years time, when we look back, there is gonna be a massive black hole of nothing of credible value or worth or design or classic status, just junk...

Mercedes are treading on very dangerous ground in my opinion, and i do not think they will come out well

So maybe you are all right.. the market does not require longevity, just a good car for a shorter time frame...

Oh well..

 

[gIzzE]

I'm getting pretty dismayed by all this, having traded in my 50,000 mile in six years A4 Avant and bought the C-Class estate. I am expecting to get between 6 and 10 years service out of this car, by which time I shall probably be changing to either an Austin A35 or a Rolls-Royce in black with a two deck estate body and flowers.

Are you all in this for real, saying that the current MB cars are thrown together rot prone junk, or are all of you just trying to upset those of us who are new owners of MB? If you think that the cars are so bad in terms of reliability/durability what will you be buying next, a Kia or a Hyundai? My experience of my car so far is that it is not as well screwed together as the Audi was, but I haven't experienced any broken back springs yet, unlike the Audi, and the local dealer has been efficient so far.

If you have come from Audi you will think they're amazing!

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

THEY DID PRETTY WELL IN THE PAST TO HAVE SUCH A BEAUTFUL HISTORY..

It feels that in 50 years time, when we look back, there is gonna be a massive black hole of nothing of credible value or worth or design or classic status, just junk...

Mercedes are treading on very dangerous ground in my opinion, and i do not think they will come out well

Would it come out better if Mercedes starts over-engineering their cars again?

We do live in a disposable world now...

 

[gIzzE]

THEY DID PRETTY WELL IN THE PAST TO HAVE SUCH A BEAUTFUL HISTORY..

If an E Class was made they way we all wanted them to be made would we pay £120,000 for one??

Also, the prices in the UK are seriously low, spec. an E220cdi up on the German configurator to match the spec of the UK E220cdi SE and you get to €59,000, compared with our price of £33,000.

These cars are not that cheap, only over here it seems.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

THEY DID PRETTY WELL IN THE PAST TO HAVE SUCH A BEAUTFUL HISTORY..

And who can forget the elegance and beauty of the Pagoda? I'm sure we could list a dozen classic Mercedes that we'd all be proud to own, but sadly the past is the past, in that sense.

If Mercedes had continued on the path of which you speak, they'd be under someone else's ownership by now; look at Bentley, Rolls-Royce etc etc there just isn't enough profit in stand-alone executive cars nowadays for them to exist in the way you want.

And also don't forget that Mercedes had such a head start on everyone else after WWII because a certain politicians financial backing, that by the time the others did catch up (the late 80's, early 90's) it took them a while to adapt to the 'new world' of shifting volume to survive.

This then obviously leads us on to today where I'd hazard a guess that 90-95% of all new Mercedes aren't bought outright, they're leased/borrowed.

 

[markjay]

...Also, the prices in the UK are seriously low, spec. an E220cdi up on the German configurator to match the spec of the UK E220cdi SE and you get to €59,000, compared with our price of £33,000...

Spooky:

 

[The Boss]

We do live in a disposable world now...

True, but we live in a disposable world because of volumes and technology.

3 costs come into a car

purchase / lease
depreciation
maintenance

i think what ever the combination, Mercedes for me are not what i once thought they were...

maybe i am the one in the wrong..

maybe i hate depreciation, and mercs of old held value like no other.. and that was part of the appeal..

maybe i think i need to adapt, or just find another car... or maybe i dont like the fact that every other car on the road is a benz, and the exclusivity has gone.. who knows..

what ever the truth, i dont like it!

 

[bpsorrel]

I hear you!

We were down at my Dad's yesterday in North Wembley and I swear, every other car was an MB! The rest were BMs or Audis! What's going on?!!

 

[gIzzE]

True, but we live in a disposable world because of volumes and technology.

3 costs come into a car

purchase / lease
depreciation
maintenance

i think what ever the combination, Mercedes for me are not what i once thought they were...

maybe i am the one in the wrong..

maybe i hate depreciation, and mercs of old held value like no other.. and that was part of the appeal..

maybe i think i need to adapt, or just find another car... or maybe i dont like the fact that every other car on the road is a benz, and the exclusivity has gone.. who knows..

what ever the truth, i dont like it!

But it is a much cheaper ownership experience these days, so is the extra depreciation really an issue?

If you want exclusive I guess it is something like a Maserati or Aston for an every day car, about the same ownership cost as a Merc was 25 years ago.

 

[markjay]

The dream of every marketing guru is to sell an exclusive product to everyone.

 

[grober]

Would it come out better if Mercedes starts over-engineering their cars again?
We do live in a disposable world now...

The disposable world is the conventional business model of the moment but its not the only one. Just as in religion, there are "orthodoxies" in business to be challenged also. Any society basing its long term future on stuff that wears out quickly to be bought with pretend money will eventually pay a price economically and environmentally and there are signs both in Europe and America that this is already happening. The European market is oversupplied with cars-is basing your future on making even more cars possibly a risky long term strategy. GM tried the mass market approach with SAAB and look what happened to them. Just because all the rest of the lemmings are jumping off the cliff doesn't mean---------?

 

[johnfromstaffs]

If you have come from Audi you will think they're amazing!

I'm not so sure.

The Audi felt like it was machined from a solid billet, showed no signs of rust after six years and 50k miles, and, after it settled down, used no oil between services. It was my 3rd VAG car, and I wanted a change, and when I found that I could get a new MB for the same price as a similarly specced A4 I bought the C-class.

It's quieter than the Audi, and probably more comfortable, and I forgive that it uses more diesel as it's heavier, more powerful, and automatic. The power steering pump makes a noise on full lock, which the A4's never did, and the car just doesn't quite feel all of a piece like the Audi did. The full answer to the question will only emerge in several years' time when I change the Mercedes for whatever comes next.

 

[redbaron]

I'm not so sure.

The Audi felt like it was machined from a solid billet, showed no signs of rust after six years and 50k miles, and, after it settled down, used no oil between services. It was my 3rd VAG car, and I wanted a change, and when I found that I could get a new MB for the same price as a similarly specced A4 I bought the C-class.

It's quieter than the Audi, and probably more comfortable, and I forgive that it uses more diesel as it's heavier, more powerful, and automatic. The power steering pump makes a noise on full lock, which the A4's never did, and the car just doesn't quite feel all of a piece like the Audi did. The full answer to the question will only emerge in several years' time when I change the Mercedes for whatever comes next.

Yes but the Audi doesnt handle at all, the ride is shocking and the styling awful.. and of course you escape the stigma of been seen as daft for not buying the same car for half the price and driving a Skoda.

 

[johnfromstaffs]

I wouldn't know or care whether the car "handled" or not, as I try never to explore the outer limits of that envelope, my reactions are just not quick enough. As for the facile comment about Skodas, that is not worthy of you. The Audi was a reliable and useful tool that did not let me down, back springs apart, I'm now waiting to see if the MB is similar.