Mercedes M-class

[amolak]

Hi,
I am seriously looking at buying a M class as I need 7 seats.
I have heard that the build quality is not very good. I have about 15k to spend which seems to be the W or X reg bracket.

1. Pls can some one advise what is the best engine?
2. What are the main problems or weak points?
3. Are there any good websites on the M class?
4. When did the facelift occur after the initial version in 98.

Pls help
tx
Amolak

 

[william silver]

Why not buy a great MB estate instead of a gas guzzling chelsea tractor. Do you NEED to go off road?

 

[amolak]

Hi,
I like the shape of the M Class. Never liked estate cars.
Drove a Land Cruiser yesterday, more like a bus.

cheers
Amolak
1998 S Class

 

[KLP 92]

1. Best engine = 270 CDI
2. Weak points, poor ride, poor build quaility on intial models, Good points, it has a Merc badge on it.
3. Don't know
4. Don't know.

 

[McGreggor]

So you want a jacked up, 4WD off roader that drinks like a fish... cause you like the shape? Personally, I'd have an E class estate with the 7 seats... faster, more economic (by far), doesn't handle like a bus and 5 times less likely to roll over in a collision..... but thats just me. Oh, and the M class was voted worst car of 2004 in the JD power survey. (Can you tell im not a fan? lol)

 

[Satch]

Started off looking at an M class but ended up with an E class estate. On the whole, the M class was just not up to it IMHO.

But then things turned out that we really needed another vehicle capable of dealing with mud, unmade roads & tracks on a daily basis so went through the whole 4x4 business again and, surprise surprise, neither my wife nor myself liked the M class all over again nor indeed much else that was not either stupidly expensive or too damn pretty to last.

Ended up with a 3.0D Toyota Land Cruiser LC3. Had it 4 months now and it is great. Not a single problem nor even a niggle. None at all. Nothing.

Performance? Buy something else but up to 50 leaves lots of things behind. Lifestyle statement? Would have to wash the mud off and clear the dog rubbish out first. Styling? Fell out of the ugly tree and hit all the branches on the way down.

Daily use vehicle in all places and conditions, vast amounts of room, comfortable shifter of people, large dogs & bulky inanimate objects plus benefit of traditional ladder chassis, center & rear diff locks for rough stuff? Absolutely great. Fuel consumption varies between 27 and 30, which is not bad for an auto with the aerodynamics of a brick outbuilding.

However, as with all such 4x4's you do need to ask yourself if you really need one. Being longer than an E class estate, just over 6' 3" high and weighing in at 2.25 tons it is not exactly an urban runabout. Although my wife does find that oncoming Nova/Saxo chavs, Porsche drivers & the like strangely always give way even though she has not yet put up the "Bitch Wagon" sticker I gave her

 

[Alfie]

So you want a jacked up, 4WD off roader that drinks like a fish... cause you like the shape? Personally, I'd have an E class estate with the 7 seats... faster, more economic (by far), doesn't handle like a bus and 5 times less likely to roll over in a collision..... but thats just me. Oh, and the M class was voted worst car of 2004 in the JD power survey. (Can you tell im not a fan? lol)

And what does your C43 sport MClaren do to the gallon?

I think some of your points here are a bit biased. The car was voted at the bottom of the JD power survey because of the complaints about the dealers as was stated on the programme. As for an E class being faster, that depends on what models are being compared. My ML regularly out strips many an E. Economy isnt that bad actually. My ML320 returns an average of 20 around town and upto 29mpg on a run. Doesnt handle like a bus either as it doesnt have the length or overhand that buses have. As for rolling over in a collision, well these points have been debated many times here but lets just say if you are in an ML and you have a collision, then you are much safer than the things you hit (or hit you) than if you were in a saloon.

My ML is well built, well sorted and very very practical. No bending down to put the shopping in to it, no stooping down to get into it etc etc.

If someone on the forum asks questions about a model, lets not deride and belittle their choice, rather, lets answer their questions for them. So here goes;

1). Best engine for future resale is 270CDI. Best engine for performance ML55. Best engine for compromise between power and economy 320/350. Avoid 430 as they are virtually unsellable these days.

2). Running costs can be high. Brake pads dont last as long as a saloon car but they dont in many 4x4's. Early models suffered from build quality issues shortly after production moved to USA. Fun to drive, practical for family use, reliable etc.

3). Havn't found any good websites for the M class myself. However there are some very helpful and useful members of this forum. Dieter being one. There are also a number of anti 4x4 people here.

4). Face lift occured in 2001. There are some 51 plate old models and 51 plate facelifts around. If you can, go for a facelift. They are better built, more refined and will hold their value better. Try direct line for insurance, mine costs just £327 fully comp.

Hope this helps.

 

[pammy]

My bro got a new X-trail last Jan and is most upset - he's not had any cause for complaint

We've looked at ML's and would rather go for the Cherokee over the ML.

 

[Shude]

Avoid 430 as they are virtually unsellable these days.

Should make for a cheap purchase then! Prolly quite quick although will be mega-thirsty

 

[Alfie]

Should make for a cheap purchase then! Prolly quite quick although will be mega-thirsty

Agreed, they are very good value. I guess if you wanted one to keep for a long time and weren't worried about depreciation or fuel consumption that is.

I find mine very quick off the mark, due to lots and lots of grip and all four wheels getting power!

 

[amolak]

What is wrong with the 430?, is it due to low mpg?
Should I be concerned if the M class has done 100k?

Also what age group are the rear family seats for?, and can these seat 3?

thanks
Amolak
S280 1998

 

[Shude]

Agreed, they are very good value. I guess if you wanted one to keep for a long time and weren't worried about depreciation or fuel consumption that is.

I bet if one has been sitting "unsellable" on someone's driveway or forecourt for a while you could bargain it down quite a bit. You can put the saved money towards the fuel costs

Depreciation is a strange thing, it looks like the M has held it's value pretty well considering the repeated "quality issues" bashing it's had over the years and the general abuse that SUVs get in the press etc.

One of the major complaints I read about for the M-class is the "cheap" plastics found on the dash. This is an American thing and all yank cars get slated for it but this is not something to do with budget. The M-class is one of the safest cars EVER for the passengers because it is designed for the seatbelt-less USA driver who wants to survive a high-speed crash in order that he is still able to sue someone . The dash is designed so you can beat your head against it in a 60mph impact and not get hurt, the plastics just crumple and fold away like a cushion. Don't let the "cheapness" fool you.

Here is another interesting M-class thread: http://mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=9954

Also remember that the ML270 was built in Graz, Austria, not in the same factory as the petrol models!

EDIT:

What is wrong with the 430?, is it due to low mpg?

Low MPG and probably higher servicing costs. Good engines though!

Should I be concerned if the M class has done 100k?

No, this is a Mercedes we're talking about. Quite a bit of the car, including the engine is shared with other models and these parts are built in Germany, it is mainly *assembled* in other countries due to distribution. No more or less likely to go wrong than any other model I'd say.

 

[Alfie]

What is wrong with the 430?, is it due to low mpg?
Should I be concerned if the M class has done 100k?

Also what age group are the rear family seats for?, and can these seat 3?

thanks
Amolak
S280 1998

The 430 will drink a lot of fuel. Also, it isn't available as a facelift either. It was superceded by the ML500.

The rear seats (Family pack) are suitable for most people but not unusually large people. Teenagers fit in them quite well. They are comprised of two individual seats which fold away to the side when not in use. They are not designed for, nor will accomodate, three people. When in use, the middle row of three seats slides forward to provide extra leg room for the rear two, obviously at a cost of rear legroom for the middle three.

As a rough guide, cars with family pack are worth £1,000 more than those without. The two seats can be retro fitted for around £1700 if you find a car without them and want them. As with any purchase, buy the one which has the lowest miles and most options on you can afford. Avoid manual diesels and cars without the lux pack. They are very difficult to sell on.

Good luck

 

[Guy]

Hi,
I am seriously looking at buying a M class as I need 7 seats.
I have heard that the build quality is not very good. I have about 15k to spend which seems to be the W or X reg bracket.

1. Pls can some one advise what is the best engine?
2. What are the main problems or weak points?
3. Are there any good websites on the M class?
4. When did the facelift occur after the initial version in 98.

Pls help
tx
Amolak

Remember the new model will appear in the UK this spring/early summer, which should bring down used prices, but maybe you can't wait that long.
See here for details of the new one.

If you want the best website for info, (albeit USA) it's here.

PS - the blue estate in my sig is a 300TD 7seater and has been brilliant, but sounds like you have your heart set on an ML - so good luck!

 

[amolak]

Thanks I think I will wait until the new model is released.

Amolak

 

[Dieter]

Hi,

As a matter of interest (for some) the first 'new' M-class (for public (USA) consumption) has rolled off the production line

see:http://www.daimlerchrysler.com/dccom/0,,0-5-7145-1-443494-1-0-0-0-0-0-9-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0,00.html

and the last of the 'old' M's (some 650,000 were built) was built on Dec 9th 04.

I still think the ML is reasonable value for money (both new and s/hand) and I can't see prices plummeting when the new ML arives (in UK). My experience of buying my ML was that each Dealer was allowed 1 - 2 cars a month. Hence I had to wait 5 months for mine (in 2002). So the new ML will 'dribble in' slowly from next Sept (petrol only at first?) so the supply of s/hand facelifted models will increase but perhaps not that dramatically.

Cheers and a Happy New Year to all,

 

[Richard W]

...snip...I think some of your points here are a bit biased. The car was voted at the bottom of the JD power survey because of the complaints about the dealers as was stated on the programme. As for an E class being faster, that depends on what models are being compared. My ML regularly out strips many an E. Economy isnt that bad actually. My ML320 returns an average of 20 around town and upto 29mpg on a run. Doesnt handle like a bus either as it doesnt have the length or overhand that buses have.

Well, IMHO and this is not intended to be-little others vehicles just my observations on personal experience:

Alfie, you must have a feather foot... my ML320 could not get over 21mpg on any tankful and averaged 18mpg over the six months I had it. I would suggest you run a few figures on brim to brim receipts, it'll open your eyes as to just how thirsty big petrol engined vehicles are. I thought it also sounded under real strain when accelerating due to the bulk of the thing, and unlike a BMW 6 it wasn't a nice noise.

It did handle like a bus, at anything faster than walking pace passengers felt like they were on a roller coaster in the bends. Sliding about on the leather as the seats are quite flat and don't support you well. The damping was appaling and couldn't cope with the alloys, banging and crashing over the slightest drain cover or imperfection.

So, my other faults and observations:
The interior was cheap, I don't mean just the plastics, the carpet had holes in it at only 40k miles, the leather looked like it had been round the world, the drivers seat was saggy.....
The folding mirrors didn't,
The seat motors were slow and grinding,
The family pack rattled when folded and my 4 year old could barely get her feet in the rear footwell when opened.
The rear seatbelt mechanisms locked and jammed
The trim panels on the bumpers kept falling out
The autobox was slow shifting (if you must have an ML go for the tiptronic on the facelift)
I looked at the service schedule for it, have you got a good budget to run one? 3 diffs to look after, brakes discs and pads regularly, all those massive bushes on the subframes, etc etc.

I put mine up for sale after only 3 months and it took me a further 3 months to sell it. Big 4wDs are trendy at the moment, but many friends I've spoken to are seeing their cash being sucked away and going for diesel estates. E-Class, Audi Allroad, Volvo XC70 Audi A6 quattro, BMW 530d are many good choices.

Personally I went for a smaller car the 320D Touring, little difference in practicality in the real world, much much cheaper to run, faster than the ML, real fun to drive and the best car I've ever owned.

 

[marcos]

I nearly bought an ML a couple of years ago but then test drove a W211 E and that was that.
A world of difference in performance, handling, build quality, dashboard straight out of a Vito etc etc
Alfie, sorry mate but I just can't see an ML 320 outstripping anything other than an E200. My E320 CDI almost keeps up with my freinds ML55, 2 cars lenghts up to about 80 is all he gains on me.
As said running costs will be higher with an M -Class and when I had an ML320 loaner for a couple of weeks when my old C-Class had a problem I don't think I bettered 20mpg, it was awfull on fuel but I thought it sounded nice, BTW I do have a heavy right foot so carefull driving should see better fuel consumption.

 

[Dieter]

Hi,

My experiences with my ML270CDi are:

28(ish) mpg (over 29,000 miles and 33months).

No holes in carpet (any) nor 'baggy/saggy' leather (don't see how quality of leather will vary (that much) between different models (i.e. doesn't it all come from the same beef population?). However do agree seats don't have much (any) lateral support.

Folding mirrors folded (and still do).
Seat motors are fine (and still are).
Don't have 7-seats (big dog instead).
No probs with auto (but it is tiptronic).
One A service plus rear pads (? why should rears last 17K when front have lasted 29K and I don't drive with footbrake on!).
B-service to come

Can't really come to terms with the need to equate 4 x 4 SUV's with performance/handling

What these postings appear more to reflect is different expectations that are associated with vehicle purchse. If you want a performance 4 x 4 it will cost you both at the pumps and for maintenance etc. So something like the E320CDi is an excellent alternative etc.

If you want a more sedate 4 x 4 to reflect flexibility/comfort etc. then the ML270CDi is, IMHO, resonable value for money, with relatively low maintenance/running costs etc.

Not all cars (same model) are identical and their usage may be more suitable to some than others etc. The ML couldn't have been such a flop as (only) 650,000 have been made (how many X5's XC90's have been made?). I will agree that after 7 years the ML does reflect its age (especially v (primarily) current crop of on-road 4 x 4's). Hence the 'new' ML. .

Its apparent that Alfie and myself (to name but two) bought the right vehicle to suit our needs. I trust that many of you are also in this situation.

Cheers,

 

[Richard W]

...snip...

Its apparent that Alfie and myself (to name but two) bought the right vehicle to suit our needs. I trust that many of you are also in this situation.

Cheers,

Well said Dieter. At the risk of appearing facetious may I add my name to the list of those who've (now ) bought the right vehicle for our needs.