Mercedes to ditch petrol AND diesel in 7 years

[glojo]

Depends on voltage of pack and voltage of charging supply - it's watts that matter really. Higher voltage charging points would mean lower currents, therefore more manageable cabling. 240V supply wouldn't be unreasonable since we're already used to handling that at home. To keep things simple imagine it's DC and ignore conversion losses etc. - recharging a 12V 200 Ah battery (12x200x1 = 2400 Wh) in 10 mins would only require 60A (240x60x10/60 = 2400 Wh).

Hi Bill,
In your opinion how near are we to having batteries\motor capable of giving an E-class a 250 mile range over hilly terrain, with stop go motoring, capable of cruising at 70mph for extended periods AND..... having the batteries small enough to be unobtrusive and still allow a boot the size of the current vehicle?

Electric power would certainly be an attractive option especially if we get more nuclear generating stations.

Regards
John the very curious

 

[jaymanek]

Not going to happen in 7 years, even if it does, traditional petrol/diesel cars will be around for at least another 20-30 years so fuel stations are quite safe

 

[BTB 500]

In your opinion how near are we to having batteries\motor capable of giving an E-class a 250 mile range over hilly terrain, with stop go motoring, capable of cruising at 70mph for extended periods AND..... having the batteries small enough to be unobtrusive and still allow a boot the size of the current vehicle?

Nowhere near

 

[Palfrem]

You can definately discount acetylene
The way it is stored in the cylinders means you would have to change the cylinder every time.

 

[miro]

We are talking about a seven year window to have these options being the SOLE fuel of our motor vehicles! It is NOT going to happewn (in my opinion)

No single car manufacturer can go out on a limb, it cannot and will not work. Just look how long lpg has been available and it is still not available nationwide on an easy to find basis.

A comic possibly got hold of a headed piece of paper with some speculative observations\suggestions and hey ho, off we go.

Electric might be an option but are we just seven years away from making this mainstrem and more important affordable?

Did Roger Moore buy that impressive electric sports car...... and how has this company progressed?

Regards
John

One fuel for all is over. The international expectation will be that each zone will have a different fuel source according to local supply.

I think we can also assume that the days of shunting fuel between continents and using fuel to do it are almost over.

I am somewhat fascinated as to what Australians will do when the cost of shipping cars to Australia begins to really take a hold on the value of the car.

Up till now fuel was so cheap that it made sense, but if I was a shipping company I would be quite nervous and looking for ways to shave 5% off my overheads.

We may just have to go back to sailing with the currents and having seasonal produce. Just like it was for the past 2,000 years minus the last 50 years.

 

[124fan]

Petrol stations have already been closing in border areas in N.Ireland due to everyone topping up in Southern Ireland so it can and will happen when the tech becomes readily available.

Cheers

 

[hawk20]

It is quite clear if you read the whole article carefully, and recent Press releases from MB, that the Sun have misunderstood. Mercedes aim to have some cars in their range in the near future that will not be driven by petrol or diesel (electricity, hydrogen etc).

But they also intend to have hybrids, and the revolutionary Diesotto petrol engine, and the incredible new diesel (that will be in the C class this autumn and will eventually be in the new A and B class).

 

[miro]

It is quite clear if you read the whole article carefully, and recent Press releases from MB, that the Sun have misunderstood. Mercedes aim to have some cars in their range in the near future that will not be driven by petrol or diesel (electricity, hydrogen etc).

But they also intend to have hybrids, and the revolutionary Diesotto petrol engine, and the incredible new diesel (that will be in the C class this autumn and will eventually be in the new A and B class).

www.mercedes-benz.tv has all of the new products on show.

Mercedes have already invested several Billion Euro (thousand million) making cars which look like current production models and run on alternative fuels. They are in traffic every day and you wouldn't know it.

 

[Shude]

One fuel for all is over. The international expectation will be that each zone will have a different fuel source according to local supply.

I suppose that means grey-importing a car from Japan or somewhere will be a pointless task if you have to replace the engine and fuel system!

Mercedes aim to have some cars in their range in the near future that will not be driven by petrol or diesel (electricity, hydrogen etc).

You mean just like every other car company then?!

EDIT:

In your opinion how near are we to having batteries\motor capable of giving an E-class a 250 mile range over hilly terrain, with stop go motoring, capable of cruising at 70mph for extended periods AND..... having the batteries small enough to be unobtrusive and still allow a boot the size of the current vehicle?

We're there right now! Electric motors are tiny compared to internal combustion engines, remember you can fit a small motor in each wheel hub allowing for no moving parts in the engine bay at all! Once you've dumped the fuel systems, exhaust, coolant systems etc there is lots of room for all the batteries. Hilly terrain is no problem, climbing uses a bit more juice but you get to recharge on the way down and stop-go traffic is exactly what electric propulsion excels at!

Your biggest problem is price. Once you've built the car from composites rather than steel to reduce the weight and put £100k of batteries in it the price will be pretty high. So far we've seen electric supercars rather than saloons because the price is usually supercar money.

 

[glojo]

Your biggest problem is price. Once you've built the car from composites rather than steel to reduce the weight and put £100k of batteries in it the price will be pretty high. So far we've seen electric supercars rather than saloons because the price is usually supercar money.

I thought that sports car was made to be extremely light, was all batteries and no practical stowage area?

I'm all for electric vehicles and fully accept the motors are available, but batteries are still a problem regarding their bulk and range? The Smart electric is an excellent example. Less than 70 mile range on a laboratory rolling road with an unladen vehicle is not good.

I think sensible folks realised the Sun article was 'factually incorrect' and no sensible person believed it.

Regarding alternative vehicles 'being out there'. I don't doubt it, but we are still waiting for the very latest Mercedes innovations to come on stream, the Diesotto petrol engine and of course blue-tech. It would be crazy to even think that this technology would be scrapped within a few years.

John

Edit
Just been reading about the little sports car

The car:

• 100% Electric
• 0-100 km/h in 4.0 seconds
• 365 km range
• 13000 rpm redline
• 200 km/h top speed

Price is stated as 99,000 euro's plus VAT

The Energy Storage System (ESS)

When we set out to build a high-performance electric car, the biggest challenge was obvious from the start: The battery.
Its complexities are clear: it's heavy, expensive, and offers limited power and range. Yet it has one quality that eclipses these disadvantages and motivated us to keep working tirelessly:
It's clean.
The Tesla Roadster's battery pack — the car's "fuel tank" — represents the biggest innovation in the Tesla Roadster and is one of the largest and most advanced battery packs in the world. We've combined basic proven lithium ion battery technology with our own unique battery pack design to provide multiple layers of

Safety.
It's light, durable, recyclable, and it is capable of delivering enough power to accelerate the Tesla Roadster from 0 to 60 mph in under 4 seconds. Meanwhile, the battery stores enough energy for the vehicle to travel about 220 miles without recharging, something no other production electric vehicle in history can claim.

 

[hawk20]

how near are we to having batteries\motor capable of giving an E-class a 250 mile range over hilly terrain, with stop go motoring, capable of cruising at 70mph for extended periods AND..... having the batteries small enough to be unobtrusive and still allow a boot the size of the current vehicle?

Electric power would certainly be an attractive option especially if we get more nuclear generating stations.

Regards
John the very curious

We are nowhere near doing what you want with an E class type vehicle. Exxon Mobil claim to have solved some of the battery problems so that Lithium Ion can be used (good stuff on their website) which helps. But super-expensive high tech carbon fibre etc solutions exist for millionaire models in tiny quantities. My guess, and nobody can do more than that at present, is that MB are on the right lines. There will be electric (inc hydrogen cars) for those who operate mainly in urban areas. There will be hybrid cars for mixed use (as well as new and better petrol and diesel engines for those who prefer them for mixed use) and for those who operate mainly out of towns there will be a rare old mixture of petrol, diesel and hybrids.

The idea that we will have different cars in different areas of the world does not seem very likely to me. The mix will be different from area to area but the components of the mix will sell worldwide IMO.

As for nuclear, I think that is going to be the next big thing as fast as we can get our creaking planning system to allow new power stations. Ten years before many more come on stream -even if we do our GB impression of rushing?

 

[glojo]

We are nowhere near doing what you want with an E class type vehicle?

Hi Hawk,
I deliberately selected the E-class as in my opinion it is not the biggest vehicle offered by Mercedes, nor the smallest. The claim was that Mercedes-Benz was going to do away with both petrol and diesel powered vehicles within seven years!

I accept it might be possible to develop a small town car to fit those requirements but I very much doubt I will live to see this rediculous claim bear fruition. We are in my opinion decades away from completely replacing fossil fuel powered vehicles.

The Tesla sports car talks a very good fight with excellent paper performance\range etc but we must also remember it is a two seat vehicle with not much room for anything else.

John

 

[hawk20]

Hi Hawk,
I deliberately selected the E-class as in my opinion it is not the biggest vehicle offered by Mercedes, nor the smallest. The claim was that Mercedes-Benz was going to do away with both petrol and diesel powered vehicles within seven years!

I accept it might be possible to develop a small town car to fit those requirements but I very much doubt I will live to see this rediculous claim bear fruition. We are in my opinion decades away from completely replacing fossil fuel powered vehicles.

The Tesla sports car talks a very good fight with excellent paper performance\range etc but we must also remember it is a two seat vehicle with not much room for anything else.

John

I agree. Half the dreams will stay as dreams. And always there are lunatic protypes claiming they will sell in their thousands. The real problem with Tesla and many others is the cost/price of their solutions makes them non-runners in the 'real-world' stakes.

One interesting idea MB (and no doubt others) are looking at is that owners would not own the batteries. Do the 70-100 mile range or 200 if we get that much, and then pull into a garage which changes your depleted batteries for fully charged ones. You pay an annual lease for the batteries, and then another modest charge each time you swap for fully charged ones.