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Nanolub Solid Lubricant - A Miracle?

oilman

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We are asked all the time about the use of magic addatives / miracle cures.

This one is certainly no exception in its claims.

Having read about it, I asked Silkolene was this a miracle addative and were the claims possible or more importantly technically possible?

If you're interested in this sort of stuff, please read on as it's an eye-opener!

Quote: John Rowland (Silkolene's Chemist)

The mode of action of the ‘NanoLub’ particles is based upon a fallacy, i.e., that very small spheres can reduce friction and carry high loads by rolling between two moving surfaces, by analogy with ball bearings. (Their ‘Technical Note’ states: ‘NanoLub………….is extremely strong and rolls along surfaces to provide excellent lubrication. In fact, this simply does not happen due to effects that are not important at ‘macro’ scale, but significant at ‘micro’, and very important at ‘nano’ scales.

If an average size ball made of hard material rests on (for example) a toughened steel surface, it will make a small indentation. (Nothing is perfectly rigid, not even diamond.) If a force is applied to the ball, the depth of the indentation will increase, but so will its area; with a large ball, the area will be large relative to the depth. Provided that the elastic limit of the steel (Young’s Modulus) is not exceeded, the indentation will be restored to its original size when the force is removed. Thanks to this effect, precision ball and roller bearings have been successfully used for about 120 years. However, if a I micron (1000 nano-metres) diameter sphere is pressed into contact with a steel surface, the maximum possible area of the indentation will of course be equal to the maximum cross-sectional area of a 1 micron sphere, which is 7.9 x 10 to -13 square metres! In other words, a very light pressure will easily exceed the elastic limit of the steel and embed the sphere in its surface. Even 1mm hard steel balls, only used in very lightly-loaded ball bearings, have a cross-sectional area 1 million times greater. (The NanoLub particles are said to be 80 – 220 nanometres, or 0.08 to 0.22 microns in diameter.)

The embedding of hard particles into bearing surfaces is well known to bearing manufacturers, and its effects have been well understood for many years: by initiating micro-cracks and grain boundary dislocations, the fatigue life of rolling-element bearing surfaces is severely curtailed. All manufacturers insist that long bearing life depends upon clean oil or grease. There have been numerous studies published showing that particulates reduce bearing life, so NanoLub must not be used in any application where this type of bearing is used. (Similar effects occur between gear teeth.)

High-speed plain bearings as used in all present-day automotive engines depend upon ‘hydrodynamic’ lubrication, which depends upon thick (100 micron or more) fluid films generated by motion and viscosity. (This was researched by the Victorian engineer Beauchamp Tower in the late 19th Century). So particles smaller than 1 micron will have little opportunity to act as a lubricant in a much thicker oil film. Even so, embedding can occur at start-up/shutdown where ‘boundary’ thin film lubrication is dominant, leading to bearing damage. As with rolling bearings, hard particles in the oil are not a good idea, hence the use of oil and air filters on all engines made since about 1950.

The makers of NanoLub correctly point out that: ‘Common solid lubricants are layered compounds like graphite, molybdenum disulphide and tungsten disulphide. The layers slide past each other to reduce friction.’ Unfortunately, they seem to have failed to understand that layered solid lubricants act as lubricants only because they are layered. One sheet of graphitic carbon atoms for example is not a lubricant; two are! If a layered solid lubricant is treated in such a way so that its layers cannot move relative to each other, it cannot act as a lubricant, so the ‘nested sphere’ structure of NanoLub actually prevents it from acting as a lubricant.

In practice, I strongly suspect that the ‘nano-spheres’ actually disintegrate under high pressure, so the WS2 can act as a layered solid lubricant. (All rather ironic that NanoMaterials Inc. have gone to great lengths to stop WS2 working, and the only occasion when it has some effect is when the nano-particles break down!) Although they draw comparisons with the C60 buckminsterfullerene spherical ‘nano-particle’, this is a much smaller (0.7nano-metre) sphere which is a true molecule and consequently very resistant to fracture.

The ‘NanoLub Technical Note’ includes some wear test data, without stating the type of apparatus used. It is well known that some primitive wear testers such as the ‘Falex’ and ‘4-Ball’ generate unrealistically high pressures which do not replicate ’real-world’ conditions. (In the 1980s Shell published a table of wear test results ‘proving’ that milk and beer were superior lubricants to SAE 90 gear oil according to some types of wear test. I can send a copy I you wish.) The NanoLub tests are not very rigourous, using unspecified ‘Gear Oil 85W/140’ with and without the additive. A correct and believable procedure would involve using a mineral base oil with various levels of NanoLub, dispersed ‘conventional’ WS2, and a sulphur/phosphorus EP compound such as Anglemol 99. I confidently predict that properly controlled wear and friction tests using reputable apparatus such as the FZG Gear procedure would show NanoLub to be no more effective than conventional particle-free additives which act chemically or electrostatically, thus having no adverse effect on bearing life.

As a general comment, I find it difficult to believe that the founders of ‘ NanoMaterials Inc’ could be so ignorant of the vast amount of research and practical experience that has gone into lubrication problems over the past 200 years. Tomas Young, who researched the elasticity of materials around 1810, would have clearly understood the fallacy of very small ball bearings, for example. Any first-year Engineering student could have pointed out the pitfalls.

In common with many ‘magic additive’ advocates, there is also the curious belief that dry-lubricated bearings can operate at low friction. In fact, any reputable engineer avoids oil or grease-free bearings like the plague, because regardless of the coating used the friction is always ten times worse than an oil-lubricated situation, and over 100 times worse than a pressure-fed hydrodynamic bearing!

Even so, they’ve got a unit on the ‘Weizmann Science Park’ and a (virtual?) office in New York, so presumably somebody believes in them! But of course, looking on the Internet I see that they have the support of Wall Street, where fools are soon parted from their money.

Unquote:

I rest my case on magic addatives!

Cheers
Simon
 
Good reading :) The part about ball bearings was interesting stuff, never knew that.

I suppose if there were any truth in it, someone like ICI would have done it years ago.
 
Parrot of Doom said:
Good reading :) The part about ball bearings was interesting stuff, never knew that.

I suppose if there were any truth in it, someone like ICI would have done it years ago.

You would at least expect engine parts to come in strange colours with unusual coatings. Thus far actual metal seems to dominate all high stress applications.

The "skin" of a metal surface generally has special properties compared to the whole mass. It is possible to differentially treat the outer surface of a metal to give it a strength which lasts even longer than untreated metal. Once the outer surface is worn or damaged the part wears out much more quickly.

Lathing and machining generally imparts desirable properties to the outer surface of a metal and polishing reduces the propagation of cracks at crystalline boundaries.

It would be like throwing sand into the engine.
 
Hi,

I remember using a 'teflon, based additive to rectify a slighty smoky (one side of my) V6 Capri :devil: . The idea behind this was that the teflon would 'fill up the gaps', and form a (more) frictionless surface and claims were made (though obviously NOT advocated) that cars had been run for several hundreds of miles without oil.

In my case it appeared to work ;) as 'smokiness' decreased. Perhaps under real conditions 'nanolube' acts more like teflon, than oil?

Cheers,
 
hi guys, as far as I can make out, when discussing nano lubes such as WS2 (Tungsten Disulphide), it doesn't act like ball bearings, apparently it acts totally differently. It is important to point out that there is a difference between "ordinary" tungsten disulphide and the nano particles used in race engines. The WS2 that is used as an oil additive is an Inorganic Fullerine and as Oilman states, that just means that the particles are ball shaped and don't contain any carbon. The way that WS2 works is that when put under pressure, as in being forced between cylinder wall and piston ring, it shears off a surface layer and it is the surface layer that acts as the lubricant. If you can think of the nano particles as flat sheets that are rolled up into a ball shape. When subjected to very high pressure between two moving parts, the surface layer shears off and adheres to both metal surfaces. Its important to note that this shearing is going on with every piston stroke and so eventually both metal surfaces are coated by a thin layer of the material. The Disulphide part of the name is important here as under high pressures the sulphur to sulphur bonds break under the mechanical forces acting on the nano particles. This is what allows the sheets to shear and provide protection to the moving metal surfaces. I tried to post a video from YT that was taken, I believe with an electron microscope which shows this process actually going on in real time, well a bit slower than real time I should say.
Anyway, that is my tuppence worth and as much as I can remember from first year University Chemistry, which I incidentally failed badly, very badly.
Also, anyone who owns an E220d will know exactly how a tractor sounds. I added this to my engine in the form of a mixture with fresh fully synthetic at the last top up. It took almost a full litre to reach full, so I guess it was pretty low. Now not only does it sound much quieter, the agricultural sound has vanished and although it sounds nothing like any v6 diesel it is comparable to the majority of diesels I've heard since adding it. I added it on 23rd March, so that's just about three weeks and it sounds better than any other MB 220d ive seen or heard.
As this contains tungsten which is the 5th heaviest metal we have, there was initially some concern about it settling out in the sump, so prior to adding it to a fresh litre of engine oil, I used 15 g in 100ml of oil, shook it vigorously for a minute or so to give it time to disperse as fully as it would and set it on the window sill in the kitchen for 48 hours, fully 48 hours, no cheating! On looking at it after this there was an extremely thin layer of what looked like dirty oil on the surface. There was effectively no settling out, even with a 5w30 grade fully synth. The E220 takes 5.5 litres and its recommended that you use 5g per litre. I added 20g to the litre bottle then up ended the bottle i had used for the settling out experiment and again, shook vigorously then added to the engine. £5 g sounds a lot to add to 6.5 litres, but remember that this is tungsten and is incredibly heavy. In a list of heaviest metals (density) we go Osmium, Platinum, Plutonium, Tungsten then Gold. ( I had always thought Gold was heavier than tungsten then I remembered, I failed Chemistry...). And the rest is history. Apart from running cooler, I forgot to add that bit in earlier. Judging by the temp indicator on the dash, it looks like maybe 5 degrees?, sorry, but this is all seat of the pants kitchen table stuff here. I suspect there may be an increase in economy as less energy is being lost as heat, therefore more cetane being used to move the car.
So, from my perspective, the car runs quieter and cooler with no ill effects whatsoever, but it has only been three weeks. I have a fresh service pack of filters just in case, but seriously, I cannot see any downsides to this. So far...
The fact that the engine APPEARS to run cooler tells me that there has been a very noticeable reduction in friction (friction->heat=bad) and so less wear and tear on the components, for me its all good so far and I don't really foresee any problems as I've also checked out as much info as I could find on the effects of colloidal WS2 on oil seals and there was very little info on this topic, no doubt there will be some data, tracking it down is proving difficult (Damn you to Hell Google!)

So that is my experience of Nano Lubrication, make of it what you will. I won't be writing a paper on it anytime soon and I certainly would not make any recommendation to anyone to try it, all I can say is that it looks like it could be rather beneficial. Time will tell.

Cheers
Frankie
 
Nanolub Solid Lubricant - A Miracle?


No, It just appears to be very good at doing what it's meant to.

youtubeDOTcom/watch?v=0Qo7m2Kacpo


MODERATORS: IF THIS POST BREAKS ANY SITE RULES, PLEASE REMOVE IMMEDIATELY AND ACCEPT MY SINCERE APOLOGY.
 
hi guys, as far as I can make out, when discussing nano lubes such as WS2 (Tungsten Disulphide), it doesn't act like ball bearings, apparently it acts totally differently. It is important to point out that there is a difference between "ordinary" tungsten disulphide and the nano particles used in race engines. The WS2 that is used as an oil additive is an Inorganic Fullerine and as Oilman states, that just means that the particles are ball shaped and don't contain any carbon. The way that WS2 works is that when put under pressure, as in being forced between cylinder wall and piston ring, it shears off a surface layer and it is the surface layer that acts as the lubricant. If you can think of the nano particles as flat sheets that are rolled up into a ball shape. When subjected to very high pressure between two moving parts, the surface layer shears off and adheres to both metal surfaces. Its important to note that this shearing is going on with every piston stroke and so eventually both metal surfaces are coated by a thin layer of the material. The Disulphide part of the name is important here as under high pressures the sulphur to sulphur bonds break under the mechanical forces acting on the nano particles. This is what allows the sheets to shear and provide protection to the moving metal surfaces. I tried to post a video from YT that was taken, I believe with an electron microscope which shows this process actually going on in real time, well a bit slower than real time I should say.
Anyway, that is my tuppence worth and as much as I can remember from first year University Chemistry, which I incidentally failed badly, very badly.
Also, anyone who owns an E220d will know exactly how a tractor sounds. I added this to my engine in the form of a mixture with fresh fully synthetic at the last top up. It took almost a full litre to reach full, so I guess it was pretty low. Now not only does it sound much quieter, the agricultural sound has vanished and although it sounds nothing like any v6 diesel it is comparable to the majority of diesels I've heard since adding it. I added it on 23rd March, so that's just about three weeks and it sounds better than any other MB 220d ive seen or heard.
As this contains tungsten which is the 5th heaviest metal we have, there was initially some concern about it settling out in the sump, so prior to adding it to a fresh litre of engine oil, I used 15 g in 100ml of oil, shook it vigorously for a minute or so to give it time to disperse as fully as it would and set it on the window sill in the kitchen for 48 hours, fully 48 hours, no cheating! On looking at it after this there was an extremely thin layer of what looked like dirty oil on the surface. There was effectively no settling out, even with a 5w30 grade fully synth. The E220 takes 5.5 litres and its recommended that you use 5g per litre. I added 20g to the litre bottle then up ended the bottle i had used for the settling out experiment and again, shook vigorously then added to the engine. £5 g sounds a lot to add to 6.5 litres, but remember that this is tungsten and is incredibly heavy. In a list of heaviest metals (density) we go Osmium, Platinum, Plutonium, Tungsten then Gold. ( I had always thought Gold was heavier than tungsten then I remembered, I failed Chemistry...). And the rest is history. Apart from running cooler, I forgot to add that bit in earlier. Judging by the temp indicator on the dash, it looks like maybe 5 degrees?, sorry, but this is all seat of the pants kitchen table stuff here. I suspect there may be an increase in economy as less energy is being lost as heat, therefore more cetane being used to move the car.
So, from my perspective, the car runs quieter and cooler with no ill effects whatsoever, but it has only been three weeks. I have a fresh service pack of filters just in case, but seriously, I cannot see any downsides to this. So far...
The fact that the engine APPEARS to run cooler tells me that there has been a very noticeable reduction in friction (friction->heat=bad) and so less wear and tear on the components, for me its all good so far and I don't really foresee any problems as I've also checked out as much info as I could find on the effects of colloidal WS2 on oil seals and there was very little info on this topic, no doubt there will be some data, tracking it down is proving difficult (Damn you to Hell Google!)

So that is my experience of Nano Lubrication, make of it what you will. I won't be writing a paper on it anytime soon and I certainly would not make any recommendation to anyone to try it, all I can say is that it looks like it could be rather beneficial. Time will tell.

Cheers
Frankie




Sounds good , have you OM651 , 220d or 220 CDI ?
 
Only around 300 due to working from home. I'll need to run for a month at least before I can say definitively. Normally Ill do around 1200 1400 miles per month, so we'll need to wait and see. I spoke to the company that is selling the ws2 and its the lamellar type not the inorganic fullerene type. He can do IF WS2, but he reckons its around 5 times more expensive. ok for racing teams, but not for local government officers. I'll look to post regular updates if you like, but that wont be for a while yet.
Frankie
 
Ummm , Frankie..


2020-04-18 22.07.03.png
2020-04-18 22.07.53.png
2020-04-18 22.08.52.png


So you've got Potassium Nanoborate in there and now WS2 , hardly a fair initial review !
 
I have the 220d, 2143 cc , you know, the one that sounds like a massey fergusson tractor. Well,it used to as its a lot quieter now. Ive only managed about 300 miles or so from a normal monthly 12-1400 when at work, so it'll be a couple of months before i know if its as good as it appears. Looking good so far though.
as a side issue, I collected around 1/3 of a tin of ptfe spray lubricant and evaporated off the propellant (Butane?) and mixed what was left with the remainder of the tin and it formed a dark grey paste. |I thought i would try to see if I could come up with a grease type lubricant. Once all the volatiles had evaporated it was like a really thick non greasy grease, if that makes any sense at all. itried it on an old sticky yale lock we have on the front door and what a difference, you can pull our front door shut now whereas before you had to really slam it two or three times to get it to close.
I understand there is no empirical evidence to back up my anecdotal evidence, but it seems to work for me. I am not recommending anyone rush out and buy this as a panacea for every ill, but its not snake oil either. Time will tell.
 
gaz, You really need to hear the difference in this car. You know how bad the 220d sounds, Ive used archoil stuff in my last three diesels and is is brilliant stuff. I ordered the diesel service pack 2 and it was there for the car being picked up on 21st February. I used it as soon as I got the car home and it made an instant difference. I still stand by everything I said about archoil. I've used it in an XF, A5 3.0tdi and now in the 220d and it is remarkable stuff that does make a huge difference to the noise inside as well as outside. The Tungsten Sulphide takes the noise reduction to a different level altogether. Archoil in all the times I've used it, has never lowered the running temp, that I've noticed at least, with this the car is running noticeably cooler, which means less friction. I get where you're coming from with the question, but the truth is out there! seriously though this is really on a different level. Don't get me wrong, its by no means silent, but put it next to another 4 pot diesel and you would be hard pressed to tell which is which. Will I use archoil again? Absolutely. Will I use the WS2 again, absolutely. WS2 doesn't clean any of the internals out whereas archoil does and that's why I can say i'd use both again. I get what you're hinting at and I'm fine with that, I would rather have the chance to qualify anything that I say than have someone not challenge or ask for an explanation. when Ive mentioned what I see the benefits as, I've said that its not a recommendation, it just works for me. So, I'm happy with what Ive said. I thoroughly endorse both archoil and WS2, just as long as my engine doesn't blow next long trip I take.
 
Interesting.
I’m withdrawing above statement.
This is not interesting at all but dangerous.
Your statements and benefits to the engine because of this “thing” you have used are based on 300 miles you have driven during lockdown when there is almost no traffic at all.
The fact that your engine temp is reaching only 80 deg can be influenced by the short time of your daily commute due to the decreased traffic volume or because your thermostat is faulty.
If you really believe in that product you should flush out all engine oil and use only that dust whatever is called. Than you can report back its performance.
 
I’m withdrawing above statement.
This is not interesting at all but dangerous.
Your statements and benefits to the engine because of this “thing” you have used are based on 300 miles you have driven during lockdown when there is almost no traffic at all.
The fact that your engine temp is reaching only 80 deg can be influenced by the short time of your daily commute due to the decreased traffic volume or because your thermostat is faulty.
If you really believe in that product you should flush out all engine oil and use only that dust whatever is called. Than you can report back its performance.
not a problem, like i said i make no recommendations whatsoever, just reporting what I observe. I will update as soon as I've put some more miles on it. as regards being dangerous, we all have our opinions and beliefs. I went through as much literature as I could find before deciding to do it. I, however respect your opinion and would not try to change it. The facts will speak for themselves. Cheeres Frankie.
 
I’m withdrawing above statement.
This is not interesting at all but dangerous.
Your statements and benefits to the engine because of this “thing” you have used are based on 300 miles you have driven during lockdown when there is almost no traffic at all.
The fact that your engine temp is reaching only 80 deg can be influenced by the short time of your daily commute due to the decreased traffic volume or because your thermostat is faulty.
If you really believe in that product you should flush out all engine oil and use only that dust whatever is called. Than you can report back its performance.
sorry should have asked this in my reply, but why do you call it dangerous and refer to is in such derisive terms as "this thing" and "That dust, whatever its called"? Don't you think that is a little disrespectful? May I ask what your scathing opinion is based on? I would genuinely like to know why your opinion changed so suddenly to the polar opposite of what was previously stated. Thanks Frankie
 
Thanks for clearing that up Frankie .

Trouble is it's all getting a bit expensive , I'd love the John Deere to sound more refined.

Didn't you consider Arcoil's WS2 ?

ab0473cd-0d4b-4b6f-9fef-b82a90ff84b1.jpg


And what's your thoughts on C60 Fullerene and Boron Oxide ?
 
Has this wonder lubricant passed the relevant approvals tests?
 
I used to work opposite a top U.K./European drag racer (“Grumpy” Dave Wilson, 5 time top methanol European champion. He used to swear by Prolong additives. just having a look these seem to be alkane based rather than containing solids.

i never used it, I figured the oil manufacturers would add it as standard surely if it worked that well. And why mess with a formula that surely has had some serious research put into it? Especially if you buy “premium” oils?

i did use slick 50 once on a tuned Fiat Coupe 20 valve turbo. Mainly as an attempt to keep it cool, it was running about 300bhp With no mods to the cooling system. It did seem to have a slight effect. I sold it in the end as I ruined it by putting eibach springs and bilstein shocks on it - way too firm for our rubbish roads!
 
These low volume bottles don't have to have approvals as only an additive .

Of course engine oil has to be ACEA and API , but I'm very comfortable using non approved manufacture spec ' meets or exceeds the requirements of ' because of how stringent the oil industry is . If not VLS will boot them up the **** .

Approval is a marketing decision that costs eye watering sums and must be done on volume at a slightly higher price to offset .

You will find very few OE manual gearbox oils with actual manufacturers approvals due to low volume of capacity and volume of sales .

I already use a higher anti wear oil than 229.51 & 229.52 as my knowledge allows me to choose but that was easy as the bulk involved oil basestock group information and a spiders web !

The next is to find a creditable friction modifier to shut up the clatter and the top of the tree is looking like WS2 .
 

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