New E Class Estate – Disappointing.

[hawk20]

New E Class Estate – Disappointing.

I have been very happy with my 211 series E220cdi estate, which is coming up for 25,000 miles and two years old next month, and which I expected to change at some point to the new model. So over the weekend I went to have a look and a drive in one.

I cannot claim I like the looks yet, but I expect I’ll get to like them eventually. Walking round it I see all sharp creases and aggression to replace the classic beauty and timeless elegance of the 211 series. Oh well, I say to myself, looks aren’t everything. Try the driving position.

Shock 1. Less legroom than the 211 series. Not enough for me with the seat well raised where I like it. (It swings way forward reducing legroom as you raise it). So I tried to tilt the seat to get some support under my thighs but the tilt mechanism is almost non-existent. The salesman says there is more legroom on the saloon and it goes back further if you have the manual mechanism rather than the one where electric motors move the seat. No good for me then. Took him to a nearby A class to convince him I wasn’t a freak of nature. Plenty of legroom in that and in the B class. More than I need in fact even with the seat fully raised. But the miles-longer E class has less. What imbecile thought it made sense for the E class to have less legroom than an A class.

Pity they don’t look at the tilt mechanism on the 5 series which really does work or even the simple mechanical tilt mechanism on the A and B class (on the comfort seats only).

In cars where you cannot get the seat back far enough to get the thighs supported, then tilting the squab up at the front will often do the trick. The A has so much legroom it hardly needs such a good tilt mechanism as the one it has, but the E estate certainly does need, for some of us, either more legroom in the front when the seat is raised, or a much better tilt mechanism.

Shock 2.
Who on earth designed the rear seats in the new estate? Was it an accountant? It certainly wasn’t an engineer or anyone who has ever owned an estate car. To save money the squab no longer folds forward. Just the backrest folds down. This gives a load area which is not flat. And it leaves a large gap between the end of the load area and the back of the front seats. Lovely place for luggage and other stuff to fall into.

On every other estate you’ve ever owned or seen (or nearly all) the squab folds forward and makes a barrier between your luggage and the back of the seats. And the bottom of the squab is tough so no damage is done when luggage and junk bashes against this barrier. But on the new estate your luggage, if you brake sharply, will just crash against the back of the front seats damaging the leather and annoying the driver. Pathetic, idiotic, dismal, cheapskate, nauseating, low-rent rubbish are the words that go through my mind. There is a much better designed load bay in an A class or a B or a C class. Or in almost any other make of estate car you care to name. What a disappointment. I feel so angry that what could be a wonderful estate car has been ruined by a busy-body accountant who found a way to save a few shillings.

I cancelled the test drive.

 

[James Rothwell]

New 5 series comes out soon if you want a big estate. I'm not a fan of BMWs but I imagine the new 5 series will be good.

 

[Will]

Or maybe look for one of the last 211s if you just wanted a newer version of what you've got

Seems a shame that the seats are compromised, it isn't really what I'd expect on a fairly expensive car.

Will

 

[stumpy1]

I had a look at one too recently. The looks I feel suit the car better than the saloon but the boot seemed to be a bit narrow compared to the previous models. I agree about cheapskate cost cutting though, and there is plenty on the new S Class. I know relatively the cars are cheaper now than 10 years ago but I'd forgo some of the expensive computer gadgets for better engineering elsewhere.

 

[wemorgan]

Shock 2.
Who on earth designed the rear seats in the new estate? Was it an accountant? It certainly wasn’t an engineer or anyone who has ever owned an estate car. To save money the squab no longer folds forward. Just the backrest folds down. This gives a load area which is not flat. And it leaves a large gap between the end of the load area and the back of the front seats. Lovely place for luggage and other stuff to fall into.

I was interested to read that the Honda Civic moved the fuel tank from the traditional position of under the rear seats to be under the front seats. This then allowed the rear seats to fold completely flat.

The Civic isn't in the same class as the E-class but I can't believe that MB weren't aware of this design feature.

Good design doesn't have to be expensive, just well thought out.

 

[C240Sport97]

I think the "reason" for the seat bases not folding up when you want to fold the rear seats is to allow for the "one touch" folding of the rear seats using the the levers at the C and D pillars.

Luckily, you can still attach the "cross bar" on to the back of the folded seat backs so that you can attach the safety net to the point just behind the front seats.

The 3 W212 estates I have seen so far has sagged at the back .. as if the air had been let out of the air suspension.

The manual W212s are a complete joke. The clutch pedal is so far to the right (due the foot handbrake pedal) that it is in the same line as the steering wheel column. Deeply uncomfortable. Avoid manual W212s like the plague.

 

[C240Sport97]

I know relatively the cars are cheaper now than 10 years ago but I'd forgo some of the expensive computer gadgets for better engineering elsewhere.

Absolutely agree.

 

[tromppost]

I had a look at one too recently. The looks I feel suit the car better than the saloon but the boot seemed to be a bit narrow compared to the previous models. I agree about cheapskate cost cutting though, and there is plenty on the new S Class. I know relatively the cars are cheaper now than 10 years ago but I'd forgo some of the expensive computer gadgets for better engineering elsewhere.

sorry off topic, but how's the new S class?

 

[st4]

Interesting hawk20 mentions the superior tilt of the seat base up front in a BMW 5 series.

I have long legs but like to sit quite close to the wheel (I have relatively short arms). To get adequate support for my legs I need a seat base that has a lot of tilt. The 211 is marginal in this respect but the 212 sounds worse and that would rule it out for me if the seating is duff. BMW cars have heaps of tilt on the bases (probably because a low down driving position, with arms close to the wheel, that needs a seat base with a high tilt is a sportier driving position)

The 204 I took out barely had enough tilt of the base to support my legs with me nice and close to the wheel.

Hawk20 should really either just keep his 211 220cdi, of if feels the need for a newer car try the V6 CDi 211 or perhaps an ML where IMHO the seating was good.

 

[stumpy1]

sorry off topic, but how's the new S class?

In a word - unreliable

 

[SilverSaloon]

Shocked and surprised to hear the rear seats dont fold completely flat... something all E classes have done right back to W123. i love the way the squabs can either fold up or come completely out in the W124 so that the seat back is folded down. it even has nice strong mounts so that heavy loads can be put on it without it moving down even more.

A highly useful feature that meant the rabbit hutch i bought recently *just* fitted into the boot, everything folded flat and there was about an inch off the headlining.

Sounds like the W212 wouldnt of been able to fit this in due to the rear seats. could well be a killer for many otherwise-interested potential buyers.

Does the W212 still have the 7 seat option?

 

[C240Sport97]

Shocked and surprised to hear the rear seats dont fold completely flat... something all E classes have done right back to W123. i love the way the squabs can either fold up or come completely out in the W124 so that the seat back is folded down. it even has nice strong mounts so that heavy loads can be put on it without it moving down even more.

A highly useful feature that meant the rabbit hutch i bought recently *just* fitted into the boot, everything folded flat and there was about an inch off the headlining.

Sounds like the W212 wouldnt of been able to fit this in due to the rear seats. could well be a killer for many otherwise-interested potential buyers.

Does the W212 still have the 7 seat option?

it does fold almost completely flat.

yes, 7 seat option still available

 

[w124coupe]

By coincidence I went for a proper look today and also decided I don't want a 212 estate.

Impossible to get comfortable driving position (I'm 6'1" and the squab can't be adjusted to support properly). T poor rear seat folding plus the frankly ugly back-end mean its a no for me (I drive an S211).

 

[prprandall51]

The seat issue is likely to cost them a customer here. I absolutely need a flat loading bay. It will be interesting to see what the story is in the 5 Series Touring - or even (if I can wait that long) the new Jaguar XF estate.

On this note, I was shocked to see that almost everything in the new 5 series is an expensive option - including loads of stuff that is standard in the new E Class.

 

[jeremytaylor]

Hawk 20, what is it with you and legroom?? First the R-class, now the new 212 estate!!

Actually the W212 isn't the first estate to have the rear seat fold in this way - it's a way of offering a longer load bay (I think the Carlton and some Mondeos were like that?) But I prefer the 211 where you have the option of either using the seat squabs as a barrier to stop the load piling into the back of your seats, or remove the squabs and have a longer load bay. I too prefer this system than the compromise brought about by having 'easy-fold' seats.

 

[hawk20]

If I designed a car as long as an R class -it is as long as the S class- I would expect to be able to get into it the legroom offered by an A class wouldn't you? Well it doesn't. And according to staff at MB World I am one of many who have mentioned this shortcoming.

If you need it you need it. But, of course 90% don't.

And of course it is all about money. Why couldn't the track that the seats slide on be a few inches longer. Then I can use it if I need it and others don't have to.

Why can't the R class have a tilt mechanism as effective as an A class comfort seat or as effective as a 1980's E class estate -let alone as effective as a 5 series which allows enormous tilt.

 

[goldestate]

Well thats my aspirations dashed whens this XF out I can't see it having enough room though.

 

[hawk20]

And to be a bit more technical one could ask this question. If you balance a seat on only one lever arm (to save money) then it will either swing forward and reduce legroom (as the E and R do) or it will increase legroom if it pivots the other way. As it happens they chose the former.

Instead the seat could be raised on two levers (in the form of an X as on the S class) and then the seat can be raised without losing legroom.

Or just make the sliding track longer as in the A, B and C class. Adds a few bob to costs of course.

As would a proper folding rear seat. Anyone who goes to see one should look at the excellent system on the A class for a comparison. There you can fold the squab forward as a bulkhead, or take it right out to give even more loadspace. Good stuff. Done by an engineer and not by the trainee accounts dept.

 

[Diesel Benz]

And to be a bit more technical one could ask this question. If you balance a seat on only one lever arm (to save money) then it will either swing forward and reduce legroom (as the E and R do) or it will increase legroom if it pivots the other way. As it happens they chose the former.

Those people that I've seen tend to have strong correlation between the length of their arms and legs and usually a short person would want to raise the seat which then to me means it is ideal that the seat goes forward when raised. The person needing most legroom would need the lowest seat height setting. I cannot see a problem here as long as the seat goes far enough backwards at a lowered position (for tall drivers). I have not tried to compare manually and electrically adjustable seats, do they really have a different adjustment range?

 

[Mudster]

Well thats my aspirations dashed whens this XF out I can't see it having enough room though.

I'd like to know this too, I have a soft spot for Jaguars but just though the suggestion of an XF estate was just that...a suggestion rather than anything firm.