New lamp post(s)

[BigJase88]

I thought the idea was we were going to be plugging our electric cars into said lamp posts and they needed to be beside the road instead of a pavement between them.

I am more confused now
I think someone hasn't thought about this thoroughly

 

[rf065]

I thought the idea was we were going to be plugging our electric cars into said lamp posts and they needed to be beside the road instead of a pavement between them.

I am more confused now
I think someone hasn't thought about this thoroughly

We've been moving lamposts from the roadside to the back of the footpath for over 20 years now. Originally it was a EU directive for road safety purposes, any that have yet to be moved do not meet the current standards for streetlighting and will be moved at some point.

 

[BigJase88]

We've been moving lamposts from the roadside to the back of the footpath for over 20 years now. Originally it was a EU directive for road safety purposes, any that have yet to be moved do not meet the current standards for streetlighting and will be moved at some point.

So what was the idea of plugging cars into lamposts then?

Pipe dream?

 

[rf065]

So what was the idea of plugging cars into lamposts then?

Pipe dream?

I suspect the media came up with that one. I've yet to see it as an official option under consideration anywhere else.

 

[Chrishazle]

Problem with the idea of lamp post charging points is that the power supply under the lamp posts was designed with just the power requirements of the street lamps in mind, not the amount of power EV chargers would require, so the current power supplies would not handle on street chargers. Also ownership of the various parts - the lamp posts are mainly local/county council, the power supplies are UKPN or similar, access for works involves Highways - mate of mine is Highways Lighting Engineer for Ashford and surrounding areas, so has spoken to me many times on this subject!

 

[BigJase88]

Problem with the idea of lamp post charging points is that the power supply under the lamp posts was designed with just the power requirements of the street lamps in mind, not the amount of power EV chargers would require, so the current power supplies would not handle on street chargers. Also ownership of the various parts - the lamp posts are mainly local/county council, the power supplies are UKPN or similar, access for works involves Highways - mate of mine is Highways Lighting Engineer for Ashford and surrounding areas, so has spoken to me many times on this subject!

Oh 100%

Would need complete rewire for sure.

Street lighting is what maybe 4 or 6mm cable.

Probs need 10x that size

 

[markjay]

Around where I live (Westminster in London), the council installed lampost chargers 5 years ago. These are slow charges (5.5kW), but they are fine because I just leave the EV parked overnight in the street as I normally do, and by next morning charging is complete.

They have now dug-up holes in the pavement in the roads near us, fitted metal bases with some capped wiring in them, then filled the holes around the bases with cement. The workers said these were bases for new lamposts.

Now, I am not sure if the new lamposts will have faster chargers, but it would be nice if they did, in case of an urgent need for an unexpected long journey while the EV isn't charged (this hasn't happened to me yet, but you never know).

 

[Chrishazle]

Scratching the memory, I'm sure one of the problems my street lighting engineer mate mentioned was that for each lamp post charging point they would also need to install a very large earthing plate, so not just digging a trench to increase the size of the feed cable but also to install this plate which, from scratchy memory, would need to be about 4ft x 4ft for each lamp post charging point. Imagine the disruption and chaos this would cause!!

 

[markjay]

Problem with the idea of lamp post charging points is that the power supply under the lamp posts was designed with just the power requirements of the street lamps in mind, not the amount of power EV chargers would require, so the current power supplies would not handle on street chargers. Also ownership of the various parts - the lamp posts are mainly local/county council, the power supplies are UKPN or similar, access for works involves Highways - mate of mine is Highways Lighting Engineer for Ashford and surrounding areas, so has spoken to me many times on this subject!

It works fine where I live, the lampost chargers are slow but then I just leave the car parked next to the lampost overnight so it's not a problem.

The chargers are operated by Ubitricity, which is a subsidiary of Shell Energy.

 

[markjay]

Scratching the memory, I'm sure one of the problems my street lighting engineer mate mentioned was that for each lamp post charging point they would also need to install a very large earthing plate, so not just digging a trench to increase the size of the feed cable but also to install this plate which, from scratchy memory, would need to be about 4ft x 4ft for each lamp post charging point. Imagine the disruption and chaos this would cause!!

Not sure how they did it in London, but the chargers were installed in the existing lampost around 5 years ago, without any digging (that I noticed).

 

[Chrishazle]

As mentioned above by BigJase88, I would need to talk to my mate Julian - who is not just a street lighting engineer, he also had years "on the tools" installing and sorting street lighting on everything from local streets to major (but not motorway) roads. He's also very knowledgeable on "retiring" out of date lamp posts - so many old metal ones in Kent have failed corrosion inspection and need replacement it's crazy, maybe the same applies to the OP's concrete (possibly metal rebar reinforced) one.

 

[Chrishazle]

Told my mate Julian about this thread, had this on email from him this morning:

"The concrete column removals in Kent were done because of the inherent risk of spalling, it’s the same old story metal reinforcing rods in the concrete rust and the concrete breaks away and being as some of the bigger columns can weigh as much a 5 or 6 tons it was deemed safer to spend the money and remove them.

Steel column at the moment in Kent cannot have charging points attached as UK Power Networks will not allow it and you also need a 3mtr square earthing mat installed at the base of each column that is to have a charger point and UK column lighting columns are single phase at 220v 20amp in the column so no good for fast chargers any way,"

 

[markjay]

Thinking about it further, it's possible that the earthing issues described above are the limiting factor in terms of charging speed, i.e. possibly this is why the existing lamposts are limited to slow 5.5kW AC chargers requiring only the standard 240V (or at least, this is one of the reasons).

Took this photo this morning of one of the existing lampost chargers (the 5.5 kW AC 240V ones that were installed 5 years ago):

In comparison, the bases for the new lamposts are almost twice as wide and twice as long (so 4 times the area). It might very well be the case that the new lamposts will have fast DC chargers, requiring 480V-1000V and 100-500 amps, hense the much wider base (for the larger earthing mat). But this is just speculation on my part. The new bases have already been done, and the workers are now gone, so I can't ask them (not until they show up again to erect the new lamposts).

 

[Deleted member 55947]

I

= pretty much every Council in the country

I wish our Council reached the dizzy heights of inept

 

[markjay]

Also.... in the 16 months that I had the EV, I have only ever charged it using the 5.5kW AC lamppost chargers in our street. It is a very convenient arrangement, and I simply never had need to charge it elsewhere.

However, yesterday I was waiting for Mrs MJ in the car outside our local Aldi, and being bored I decided to use one of their 50kW DC chargers.

The ambient temperature was low (6°C), and the battery was cold (battery preconditioned not enabled), so it only managed to charge at 40kW:

Based on these stats, the car charges at around 10% per 15 minutes (possibly a bit faster when the ambient temperature is higher), and so a 50% charge (which is how I usually charge it - from 30% charge to 80% charge) should take around 1:00h-1:15h, which is not bad - let's hope that the new lampposts with the larger base will indeed have 50kW chargers in them

 

[Chrishazle]

From what my friend Julian said above, I would think there are 2 problems to fitting fast chargers to lamp posts, one being the need for a 3mm square earth plate and the other being the voltage and amperage supply to the street lighting - if as in Kent it's 240V 20A then even with a 3m square earth plate a fast charger would not be possible, even if UKPN (UK Power Networks) would allow it!

 

[SeagullFan]

Thinking about it further, it's possible that the earthing issues described above are the limiting factor in terms of charging speed, i.e. possibly this is why the existing lamposts are limited to slow 5.5kW AC chargers requiring only the standard 240V (or at least, this is one of the reasons).

Took this photo this morning of one of the existing lampost chargers (the 5.5 kW AC 240V ones that were installed 5 years ago):

In comparison, the bases for the new lamposts are almost twice as wide and twice as long (so 4 times the area). It might very well be the case that the new lamposts will have fast DC chargers, requiring 480V-1000V and 100-500 amps, hense the much wider base (for the larger earthing mat). But this is just speculation on my part. The new bases have already been done, and the workers are now gone, so I can't ask them (not until they show up again to erect the new lamposts).

looking at that cable just makes me wonder how long it will be (if it hasn’t already) until some car owner gets sued for personal injury when some poor sod trips over the cable strewn across the pavement.

Expect more spam compo calls ‘we hear you have recently had a fall’ surely can’t be long

 

[markjay]

looking at that cable just makes me wonder how long it will be (if it hasn’t already) until some car owner gets sued for personal injury when some poor sod trips over the cable strewn across the pavement.

Expect more spam compo calls ‘we hear you have recently had a fall’ surely can’t be long

I was wondering about the very same thing myself.

I have two charging cables, a short 3m cable and a longer 7.5m cable, and I use the shorter one where possible. Then, I always try to route the cable close to the ground on the kerb i.e. to minimise the risk of anyone tripping over it (luckily it right under the lampost ).

But yes, it did strike me as a potential H&S issue (years in IT taught me a thing or two about safe cable routing).

 

[flying haggis]

Surely it would better if the cable exited the plug at right angles, just like a domestic plug, rather than at 45 degrees as now. That would mean the cable went straight down in parallel to the post. The other end could be the same although I suppose being at an angle keeps it away from the cars bodywork.

 

[Charliecloud]

With these street charging points, whats to stop the charging cables either being pinched or having them superglued in place.