New Mercedes-AMG C63 confirmed as 650hp hybrid

FastLaneJB

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Every car ever produced has been a stepping stone to the next, it’s not just an EV or hybrid thing. Every generation is better than the one which went before and is a step toward the one which follows.

There’s never a good time to buy technology, there’s always something better coming. So best to buy when you need to and buy what is likely to be the best-fit option for the period of expected ownership.

Absolutely but just saying I feel it’s a little different at the moment is all. Hybrids are a stop gap solution until EV’s and the charging network get there. A car that’s got an ICE and a tiny EV range doesn’t feel like it’ll last the ages.

Say you take a Merc or BMW engine like a 6 cylinder. They don’t change the engines always when a new model year comes around. They might use one generation for say 10 years, then the next one comes out. It makes 20 bhp more and has 1mpg better fuel economy. The ICE engine is pretty well developed these days, it doesn’t jump forwards that much. You wouldn’t feel too short changed if you had a much older one.

Now you take this Hybrid power train. Let’s say they use it for 8 years in the C63. The car that follows this one I’d imagine will be fully electric by that point and could be considerably better again still. The rate of change is much faster now and this isn’t just an earlier edition of a power train that will improve over time. Hybrids are a stop gap that have a short window before they’ll die off.
 

Dickster

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I’m not sure that’s the case. Hybrid offers a practical solution for those without options for charging. And personally, I’m still not convinced that we’ll all be driving EVs in 20 years. And if we are my money is on hydrogen not battery power.

I happened to catch some new EV racing recently ( Lewis Hamilton had his own team) and I note that they used hydrogen. Presumably, as charging would be totally unpractical for racing.

EV is not the green solution it’s made out to be ..jmho
 

FastLaneJB

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I’m not sure that’s the case. Hybrid offers a practical solution for those without options for charging. And personally, I’m still not convinced that we’ll all be driving EVs in 20 years. And if we are my money is on hydrogen not battery power.

I happened to catch some new EV racing recently ( Lewis Hamilton had his own team) and I note that they used hydrogen. Presumably, as charging would be totally unpractical for racing.

EV is not the green solution it’s made out to be ..jmho
Assuming they do go ahead with the ban's planned in the UK it's pure ICE cars by 2030 and Hybrid's by 2035 I seem to remember. That's only new car sales so of course there will still be ICE cars and hybrids on the road by then.

Still 20 years is a long time when it comes to technology so at this point we don't really know what we'll end up with by then. I do think however Electric makes the most sense from an environment point of view. Over time they'll reduce the impact of making the batteries, they'll last longer, etc and we'll produce more of our electricity from renewables. Still think you'll have some cases for other means, motorsports might be a good example.

Anyway I'm all for this new powertrain, those that don't like it can still get their hands on an older AMG C63. Yes it's not going to sound as nice but honestly I think regulations around noise and pollution are ruining that on new cars anyway. I'm looking forward to getting a test drive on one hopefully as it could well be just coming out around the time I'm due to change.

Of course I got a C63S when it had just hit the market and had to return it in the end because of all the issues it had. I'm somewhat wary about getting a new model Mercedes since that experience but I'd consider giving them a second chance...
 

356speedster

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Regarding fleet emissions.... I heard an interview where a senior BMW M division guy was quoted recently: apparently BMW can sell as many M3/4s as they have demand for and the numbers are still so low vs the rest of their range, that their fleet emissions average isn't affected. I'd epxect AMGs are sold in similarly small numbers vs "normal" cars from the range, so this feels more like a marketing push than anything else. Time will tell if the 4-pot flies or not, or whether the V8 makes a later-in-life comeback due to customer demand.
 

Germgh0st

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I agree that hydrogen is the way to go rather than batteries. Companies like Hyundai are putting a lot of money into researching and developing this.
 

rs67

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I agree that hydrogen is the way to go rather than batteries. Companies like Hyundai are putting a lot of money into researching and developing this.

I think ultimately that hydrogen will be the way to go, as the range/refueling part beats battery EVs hands down. But it's going to take a long time, 20 years or more, as there are several big hurdles to overcome: efficiency, production of green hydrogen and safety in the supply chain and distribution network.

The first, and likely the easier problem to solve, is efficiency. Battery EVs are around 80% efficient, whereas a hydrogen fuel cell is only about 25% efficient. Consider that if we're using the first technique below, water electrolysis, to produce hydrogen, this efficiency delta is going to be extremely costly.

Challenge #2 is that production of hydrogen today is anything but green. There are two major industrial techniques for producing hydrogen: water electrolysis and steam methane reforming.

The "green" one, water electrolysis, is prohibitively expensive due to the platinum used in the electrodes. And even then, for it to be truly green, the electricity used to produce the hydrogen must ALL come from renewables, otherwise it's not green.

The other method, which is commercially viable, produces large amounts of carbon monoxide as a by-product: steam methane reforming, where CH4 + H2O ⇌ CO + 3 H2. There are some techniques for capturing the carbon monoxide (blue hydrogen), but it's still nascent technology.

And then there's the supply chain / logistics issue. Electricity is easy to move and requires no infrastructure over and above what we have today except for the EV charging stations. Hydrogen, on the other hand, is a very dangerous element and will require extensive infrastructure and safety protocols.
 

Larkone

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And then there's the supply chain / logistics issue. Electricity is easy to move and requires no infrastructure over and above what we have today except for the EV charging stations. Hydrogen, on the other hand, is a very dangerous element and will require extensive infrastructure and safety protocols.
The oil companies are used to that and have the real estate and infrastructure to manage this. They have no part in the electric infrastructure and they will not want to lose their position as 'energy suppliers' so Hydrogen will be very attractive to them.

The majority of the electricity infrastructure is not up to the additional load EVs will present to the system (along with ASHPs they are driving us towards) and that is very costly to upgrade as it will mean bigger transformers, more cabling so new poles as the existing poles reach weight capacity etc. etc. Consumers will not be happy when they find they cannot home charge because too many others in their street are already driving the infrastructure to capacity.
 

benGTR

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They'll be everywhere on cheap PCP deals to get them moving
 

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