• The Forums are now open to new registrations, adverts are also being de-tuned.

OM642: Garrett GTB2365vk

After testing A LOT during the last year i have to admit, that the 2365 is too big for the OM642. I mean, it wouldn´t be too big if the EGT´s were staying at a lower level while cranking up the fuel and power. Impossible.

Turbo comes in at aprx 1.800 rpm (0.5bars). It has some torque at 1.800 but it really starts kicking at 2.200 rpm, where the stock turbo is full boostet at aprx 1.700 rpm. Thats a 500rpm spool up delay. On a diesel!

Here is my CLK on the autobahn WOT. 2.3 bar max boost pressure aprx 1500°F / 815°C after a 20 sec WOT run.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.


Special thanks to Adam and William with their help on the tunes!
 
A little update :

First I asked a friend that is working on Renault-Volvo trucks test bench, the current trucks are running 600°C.
Current diesel cars are running 700-800°C at the exhaust manifold.

Then I though it was interesting to give some informations to people who are interested by this thread. We worked with Stevie to make the better tuning file possible. What we have learned :

The ECU of om642 first generation is EDC16CP31. The calibration file that is contained into Xrom memory isn't fully readable throught OBD port. There is an hidden part that can only be reached by doing a bench tune/opening the ECU. This hidden part contains some copies of maps from the calibration part reachable through OBD port.
The hidden part contains some SVBL (single value boost limit) and copies of boost maps. It's why a lot of people can't get the boost pressure they want with this ECU.

To do a bench tune we used this tool : [AMT Software Offline Available] ECUHELP ECU Bench Tool Full Version with License MD1 MG1 EDC16 MED9 ECUs No Need Open ECU

The tool can do "service mode", it means that it does not require to open the ecu and can flash the ECU just by connecting some pins. It's possible to fully clone ECU with that tool, and we did it several times.

It seems to be possible to clone every EDC16CP31 with different OEM Mercedes numbers. We tried to write the files of our currents ECU on older units and it worked. It seems that the most important number is the Bosch number : 0 281 01x xxx.
Unfortunately this chinese tool isn't reliable and I encountered some writing faults, especially during checksum block writing despite the checksum were verified by Winols and the software of the chinese tool.
The problem seems to be software related, because sometimes deleting the software and reinstalling it get the tool working again. Sometimes not. Sometimes it's needed to change computer. And sometimes your ECU got killed by the writing error (2 times for me, so 2 ecu killed).

So if you want to remap with this tool, be carefull because you can get problems. I won't use it anymore in the future.


Now about what we did to remap Stevie's car and mine :
The goal was to run a fully calibrated tuning file. It means no tricking the ECU to get a higher injected quantity or boost pressure. To do that we had to search, find, and modify all the limitations of the ECU. The advantage of doing that is that we can respect all securities of the file, extend the maps using straight line and polynomial equations, running calibrated smoke maps. Actually we wanted an OEM quality file. And we succeeded. Now we can overcome the 100mm3 maximum injection of stock configuration, and put the boost and rail pressure we want without any limitations.

The second problem was to datalog the car. It doesn't exist any good software for Mercedes as for VAG or BMW, and xentry isn't great for tuning purpose. Then I succeed to understand how display all variables I want in charts with vediamo. We don't have any logging limitation value as the common boost pressure is limited at 2650mbar by CAN. Actually we are logging directly the value the ECU is using. We succeed to display more that 3200mbar on the datalog without changing the can offset and coefficient. It was difficult for me to understand how it works, but Vediamo is a very powerful tool. A look into how looks the graphs :

View attachment 157790
Here, measured boost pressure was 3118 hPa while asked boost was 3083 hPa at 3500rpm and 101mm3 injection.

View attachment 157791

The backpressure was 3931 hPa :
View attachment 157792

Anyway, don't really look at the values on the charts, it's just one example of the multiple trials we did to find a proper tune.
The datalog was helpful to look after VNT behavior, but I will explain more things about the turbo after.

As Mercedes ECU smoke maps are based on MAP sensor pressure regulation contrary to MAF sensor and Lambda sensor as BMW and VAG, Stevie wanted to try a MAF less tuning file. This way, any future MAF sensor problem can't occur.
To do that, I switched the MAF sensor presence to 0, and enabled ASmod modele calculation. With the help of another tuner, I succeed to delete the DTC to totally unplug the MAF sensors.
The result was surprising. The car is running much more smoother and the gear pass smother too. So Stevie physically deleted the MAF sensor from the boost pipe.

Now, about how we tune the car, the goal was to get a safe file and without visible smoke at the exhaut. The goal wasn't to maximise everything as Stevie is often pushing hard the car on the autobahn. The maximum we tried was 750nm and 330hp calculated, with 2,1 bar boost pressure to avoid smoke and trying to run low exhaust temp. We could not go higher than 330hp and actually it wasn't a safe file neither.

The problems of om642 are exhaust temp and cylinder pressure. The pre-turbine temperature sensor Stevie installed was helpful to set the proper settings. To decrease exhaust temp, either you rise the boost pressure to lower the AFR, either you add some SOI degrees more. But this two solutions are increasing the cylinder pressure.
As some thread about om642 cracking head pistons were published, we were afraid to be too violent with the engine. So it's why we were careful when adding SOI.
I calculated how many degrees were needed to keep the same End of Injection (EOI) as stock 80mm3 with 90mm3 and 100mm3. The results were respectively 2° and 4° more just to keep the same EOI. We only tried 2° more as why think 4° are already a big deal for the engine already running 2,1 bar relative boost pressure. Maybe we are wrong but as we don't have any informations more, we didn't want to be the first to discover the maximum SOI you can put before blowing up the engine.

So the car was running quite well, but the exhaust temp was too high, approx 900°C. It's obvious we had to put more SOI to get conservative exhaust temp. But we did not. Then I will explain my vision :

OM642 is made to be low rev torque machine and the stock power is at 3800 rpm. The engine isn't made to do such great power as BMW and VAG. Because it's designed to do torque. A lot of torque. It's why I think it would be less dangerous to have a 800nm with 300-310hp and a very beautiful usable rev range, than a 330-340hp. If you compare with other german engines, om642 is the easiest to get massive torque.

So I met Stevie in june 2024 as I had to go to Berlin. I tried his car I tuned. The power was great but the turbocharger is too big. YES, it is. Don't listen to hybrid turbo makers and others guys who want to sell their products. My feeling when driving the car was mixed. Indeed when pushing on the autobahn the car is really fast. But the reactivity is poor. When pressing the pedal to get a full load, you have almost 2 seconds to wait before the ECU hit the boost limiter, then the gearbox shift down to rise the RPM and give the turbine the necessary airflow. 2 seconds it's enormous. Believe me, you don't want it. And it's just a 2365 turbo. Not a 2573 or something else bigger. Indeed we tried to close the VNT and run richer mixture to get faster spool. But impossible to make it spool before 2200rpm. As the peak power is 3800rpm, the range usable isn't that great. Understand that under 2200rpm you won't have any torque. This engine isn't like BMW or VAG that can run 4500-5000rpm. OM642 can make 750nm at 1800rpm. It's a totally different feeling when driving a beast torque than a poor laggy engine. A lot of low torque is a very different feeling than a high rpm power engine.

So the decision is made. As it is difficult to go higher than 310-320 hp without getting to high exhaust temp or rising SOI above limits we don't want to go up, Stevie will change his turbocharger to get Ballbearing 2260vklr from OM642LS. There are plenty in the scarpyard and you can replace the internals for approx 300 euros. Really less than a 1700 euros turbo that is spooling late.
The 2260VKLR can deliver 2600mbar at 1600rpm and 2700mbar at 3600rpm in the stock LS software. It will be easy to get 2800mbar at 1800rpm and 2900mbar at 3600rpm. The maximum Stevie is running now is 2,1 bar boost. 1,9 bar with the 2260VKLR isn't very less. But the usable range and the reactivity of the turbo will transform the engine.

Hope those informations would help some of you to take the decision to choose or not an hybrid turbo. I choosed the 2260vklr way. I don't regret it. And I'm sure that Stevie won't regret it as well.

If you have any questions, or if you need any tuning on OM642, I'm now able to do it. We'll try to keep the thread updated.
Very interesting information on this page Willo54 . I was wondering if I can get in touch with you?
 
Very interesting information on this page Willo54 . I was wondering if I can get in touch with you?
Yes of course ! The problem is that we can't do private message on the forum.

Send me an email or any other way to contact you, then I'll send you a message.
 
Unfortunately the adresse seems to be wrong as I can't send any mail to it.

Send me here : [email protected]
 
Update: After a long period, I am providing more information about the tuning.

Unfortunately, the 2260VKLR turbo isn't an ideal choice for several reasons:

First, it generates a significant amount of backpressure. With the same exhaust configuration on Stevie's car, we observed a difference of 700 to 800 mbar in backpressure while maintaining the same boost pressure on the intake side. We even reached 4700 mbar backpressure while trying to make 2,1 bar boost as the 2365 turbocharger.

In fact, running the same pressure as the OM642LS version already reaches the maximum allowable backpressure for the engine. Unfortunately, the hot side is too small.

During testing on my car—with a straight-pipe exhaust from both exhaust exits (which flows significantly better than a single-exit pipe)—only 1.8 bar of boost resulted in 4200 mbar of backpressure. This was with a straight-pipe exhaust and a 3" downpipe.

This exhaust :
Delayed pressure build (1).png

Screenshot_120.png

Regarding its spooling capabilities, I wasn't able to make it spool significantly earlier than the stock 2056 turbo. In theory, it should, but the best I managed was reaching 2 bar boost around 1900-2000 rpm on the CLK.

It should be capable of achieving 1.6 bar at 1600 RPM in the stock LS configuration. However, the issue lies in boost pressure management within the EDC16 ECU, which, for some reason, does not allow the pressure to build as quickly as it should.

This leads to the next problem: constant overboost at partial load. With stock PID settings and the VNT preposition map, the 2260VKLR turbo remains in a state of continuous overboost.

Screenshot_116.png

While driving at 110 km/h, the overboost was consistently around 300 mbar higher than the target pressure. In theory, this should reduce fuel efficiency, but based on my measurements, that hasn’t been the case.

When attempting to lower the VNT preposition to prevent the VNT vanes from closing too much, I managed to reduce the overboost. However, when the engine increased load without increasing RPM—specifically while climbing a hill—the boost pressure failed to follow the target increase, resulting in underboost. In this condition, fuel efficiency dropped significantly.

You can see this in the picture: the purple curve represents the target pressure, while the blue curve shows the measured boost pressure. The VNT did not move correctly to follow the boost target desipite no PID has been modified.

Screenshot_117.png

Another issue arises during full-load acceleration: the boost pressure build-up is slightly delayed. Then, as the VNT vanes close, the pressure builds too quickly, resulting in a boost spike.

Due to this overboost, the VNT rapidly opens to bring the pressure back to target, but the correction happens too aggressively, leading to an underboost. Since the smoke maps are carefully calibrated, the drop in boost pressure causes a slight reduction in injection quantity, making the car feel hesitant.


Design sans titre (46).png

Here a very nice view of all the problems :

Screenshot_119.png

These issues are directly related to PID regulation. After extensive testing and attempts to calibrate the PID, it became clear that achieving proper control was nearly impossible.
The core issue was preventing boost peaks while smoothing the response and, at the same time, improving the turbo’s reactivity when the boost target increases rapidly. I think you try to understand the complexity...

What I Tried:​

Copying the PID values from the LS version:
I knew it wouldn’t work perfectly (Because each PID parameter is dependent on the specific system), but the results were catastrophic. The boost pressure became completely unstable, even with slight acceleration, and the car jerked severely.

Softening the LS PID settings:
Despite multiple adjustments, the jerking persisted. So, I reverted to the stock PID settings and focused on fixing:
  • Constant overboost when cruising
  • Boost delay
  • Overboost spikes
Testing multiple PID and VNT preposition settings on the stock 2056 PID:
I created and tested at least 15 different files with adjustments, but nothing led to satisfactory results.

Realizing that modifying the existing PID settings wasn't effective, I decided to take a different route:

Zeroing out all PID maps. I first attempted to calibrate the VNT preposition map from scratch. However, even after doing this, boost pressure remained unpredictable. At medium and high injection quantities and low RPM (<1800 RPM), the VNT followed the position target correctly.
But past 1800 RPM for low injection quantities, the VNT suddenly closed for no apparent reason, deviating significantly from the preposition target and producing a major overboost.

I discovered that a PID function exists to lower backpressure, so I disabled the exhaust backpressure regulation PID. However, despite this change, the issue persisted, and I continued to experience high boost pressure at partial load, particularly at 130 km/h.

At this point, after weeks of testing, searching in the file, and data-logging the car, it was impossible to just obtain the correct VNT position from the basic preposition map, and I wasn't able to find the problem.

Conducting these kinds of tests is incredibly frustrating. Every time a new setting results in poor drivability, it feels like I’m moving further away from the car’s comfort and intended purpose rather than improving it.

So, because of all these issues, I’ve given up on the 2260VKLR turbo. If you want your car to perform significantly harder than the original setup without compromising on smoke, drivability, or comfort, this turbo is too difficult to manage.
Maybe it would work for those who don’t mind a bit of smoke by making the smoke maps less restrictive to prevent the injection limitation when boost pressure drops, as I explained earlier.

However, I don’t want to make compromises. My feeling is that, even though I would have loved to use a ball-bearing turbo, it will be much easier to build a solid setup with a simple plain-bearing turbo.

If you add to this difficult calibration the fact that the 22 turbine and hot side are very restrictive, it becomes clear that the 2260VKLR is not well-suited for achieving high performance on the OM642.

I don’t have a tuned LS version to measure the backpressure from a 350d Stage 1, but I suspect it would be higher than 4200 mbar.


Conclusion of the 2260VKLR Adventure

This turbo works without issue if installed in the car without increasing the stock 1.3-1.4 bar boost pressure of the original 2056 turbo. Fuel consumption decreases significantly, despite the constant overboost at partial load.
I recorded 5.6L/100 km on the dash and 5.8L/100 km measured at refueling during a 600 km highway trip at 110 km/h, and I achieved this result multiple times. However, this changed after I attempted a MAF delete tune. Don't do a MAF delete on this engine. It will lead to very bad fuel consumption.

11130c45-c00c-4180-a20e-bf8ec41dce9b (1).jpg943b0dcd-3f17-4486-91d9-0ad3fc547004.jpg
If you look at the range display, you can see the car showing 34L for 621 km, which is approximately 5.5L/100 km.
In the picture, I had already driven 140 km under different conditions, so don't take the 750 km for 46L into account (the car has an 80L tank).
Unfortunately, I can't find the original pictures from the first time I achieved this low consumption, nor the gas station receipt... 🙃
You will have to take my words on it this time.

Keep in mind that my W211 is equipped with 245mm front tires and 265mm rear tires. With 220mm tires, fuel consumption might have been around a real 5.4L/100 km or lower, which I think is great for an E class and V6 diesel engine that produces around 290hp on my car with the 2260VKLR.

Delayed pressure build (3).png

The installation of the 2260VKLR was difficult, and to be honest, not worth the effort. The PID issue with a ball-bearing turbocharger cannot be easily solved. This means that, despite the ballbearing technology of this turbo, adapting it to software that isn't designed for it is practically impossible.

But what’s interesting is that this turbo runs perfectly on the stock power software, you won’t notice any difference in drivability, and fuel consumption is significantly lower. On top of that, the ball-bearing technology is highly reliable, and since the turbo is water-cooled, it helps reduce oil coking, making the setup even more appealing.
For now, I’m keeping it in my car while I work on building a setup that can handle 750Nm with a manual gearbox and dual-mass flywheel. I won’t clutter Stevie’s thread with my project updates, but if some are interested, I might start my own thread later.

At the end, which turbocharger is best ?

It's clear that the GT22 turbine and the hot side of the 2260VKLR choke the engine and are too restrictive. A 23 AMG turbine or any 23 turbine with a larger VNT shroud is necessary to achieve low backpressure. However, to run at 2.1 bar boost, like Steve’s car, I believe a 65mm compressor might not be necessary. A 62mm compressor could be sufficient. I need to confirm which compressor is the most suitable by consulting compressor wheel manufacturers.
The spooling performance of a turbocharger is strongly linked to the compressor wheel size. The larger the compressor, the slower it spins. Reducing the compressor size would improve spool time.

Is it worth running more than 2.1 bar boost pressure? I don’t think so. Ultimately, it’s always a question of reliability.
When tuning Stevie’s car, I initially thought I had reached the limit and that the engine might not handle the power. But in reality, the OM642 seems more capable than many people assume—as long as it’s tuned carefully, especially in terms of injection timing. Stevie’s car is still running strong, and believe me, unless you’re driving in Germany, you won’t push the car from 100-200 km/h as intensely as he does.

The results from Saunders have been very impressive as well. He tuned his car much more aggressively than we did, and it ran in this tuned state for several years—until an exhaust manifold failure destroyed the hybrid turbocharger. Unfortunately, the exhaust manifold issue spares no one.

Also, I asked "mirmir69" from www.mersuforum.net, and by chance, I got an answer, one year before ! I'll share it with you here.
Design sans titre (47).png

So, in my opinion, 2.1 bar is the best compromise. Many people are frustrated that the OM642 struggles to exceed 350 hp, but power figures don’t tell the whole story—it’s about overall performance.
I even made a comparison video with two OM648-powered cars tuned to 400 hp, and Stevie’s car isn’t far behind at all. Of course, we need to consider that his CLK is lighter than an E-Class, but still, the performance is there.

For those curious, here’s the video:
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

And I want to highlight that the CLK is equipped with an intercooler, a hybrid turbo, and an exhaust from a CLK500—nothing fancy.

Future Testing: GT2362V

We need to confirm, but I think a GT2362V is the best compromise between:
  • Spool time
  • Maximum boost pressure
  • Exhaust backpressure
In the future, I plan to test this setup after getting confirmation from a compressor manufacturer regarding the compression ratio and airflow characteristics of a 62mm compressor.


I believe I can now say that I have extensive experience with this engine and ECU. Since I’ve received messages from enthusiasts looking for high-quality tuning after facing issues with so-called "professional tuners", here is my Facebook page if you have a project and would like to contact me : Log in to Facebook

If I get enough projects, I will try to be more consistent in sharing detailed data on my tunings. Additionally, I’ve worked on OM648 tuning, aiming to create a fully calibrated software, just as I did for the OM642. Surprisingly, despite the OM648 being more commonly tuned, the quality of tuning files for this engine seems even worse than on the OM642 side...

I hope the information I’ve shared will help some of you make an informed decision about your OM642. If you enjoy this kind of project, let me know, and I’ll be happy to share more in the future!
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom