Overheating...

[Spinal]

Grrr... this is getting very annoying! Since a couple of days, my computers internal alarm has gone off every time I do something moderately computationally intensive. I can't watch a dvd, while having iTunes open and have several other windows open. If I compress large files, the dreaded beep-boop-beep-boop... goes off...

My first thought was a failed fan, so I checked all the fans... everything works... Then I thought that the CPU's thermal paste might be ont he way out, so I installed MBM and have kept an eye on the temps... My max is 49C, with an average of 45/46... Seems normal... Case temp is 30C as recently I have the side open with a fan pointing at it...

The processor is a Socket 478 with a AC Freezer 4 heatsink/fan unit; the three hard-drives are cooled by 2 80mm fans (input), the case has an 80mm output fan, and there are 2 fans on the PSU (one input from the case and one output out of the case).

My next thoughts were the graphics card, but the fan there seems to work, and the RD-RAM modules, (4 of those), but there again, MBM doesn't have stats for them.

I plan to vacuum the heatsink next, even though it isn't clogged...

Ideas? The mobo is a MSI MS-6545...
Michele

 

[Benzowner]

You seemed to have cleaned off all the inside weel but, have you checked the air inlets, mine get clogged with fluff on a weekly basis and have to be cleaned.

 

[Spinal]

Thanks Geoff, forgot to mention that. The inlets are covered by an air-filter, which filters out the dust and gets cleaned on a weekly basis (well, its supposed too, since I have a bedroom fan blowing air in from the side, the inside makes it look like the dust-bunnies are in the mating season! )
Michele

 

[marcos]

Had a similair problem a few years ago. I installed additional cooling, cleaned everything, re-seated the CPU and then read a report that stated that the CPU starts to overheat when it is on it's way out. Sure enough about a month later it went bang.
Don't know if it helps but my CPU was recording 55 c most of the time and would rise to 75 - 80 with heavy applications before it gave up.

 

[grober]

Have you checked the Dilithium crystals aren't overheating? Sorry couldnt resist.
How about one of your temperature monitoring devices is faulty rather than the cpu or motherboard itself? I would also be wary of taking off the side of the case since that tends to disrupt airflow thro the system and negates any inlet filtering you may have.

 

[Spinal]

LOL! I wish... if it was the dilithium crystals, I would just need to realign the magnetic constrictors, and re-initialise the warp core...

I know about not removing the side of the case (I'm one of those people who will frown and shake his head when someone removes the side of the case "to cool the pc down").... BUT, I am pumping all the air coming out of a 2-foot fan straight at the case... and it seems to work.

Regarding my monitors not working... I have software and hardware monitors. The software ones use the mobo's internal sensors, and the hardware ones little probes stuck around the case. I realise the probes aren't accurate, but they read only 3/4 degress under.

I have noticed something ... odd to say the least. P4 motherboards have 2 connections going to the PSU. One "old style" (I think its called a standard atx connection, but I'm not sure); and a smaller one right next too the processor. I noticed that the second one is totally disconected; must have been an oversight last time I added something... That said, the pc seems to work... except the intermittent beeping... I'll try re-seating that now, then I'll cross my fingers
Michele

 

[agatward]

I have noticed something ... odd to say the least. P4 motherboards have 2 connections going to the PSU. One "old style" (I think its called a standard atx connection, but I'm not sure); and a smaller one right next too the processor. I noticed that the second one is totally disconected; must have been an oversight last time I added something... That said, the pc seems to work... except the intermittent beeping... I'll try re-seating that now, then I'll cross my fingers
Michele

If the smaller one has 4 or 8 pins and looks like the diagrams here then that'd be the connector that is usually used to provide the power to your CPU. Some motherboards parallel this up with the 12V supply coming in on the main ATX connector, some use it separately. I'd assume as yours is still working then you have a board that parallels it up

The alarm could be because this is missing and the board itself is getting warm. Your CPU will be drawing probably around 20 or 30A at somewhere below 2V (depending on which particular CPU you have), so the board's inner layers which are used to carry this current will be getting nice and warm. Of course if you're not helping your board by not plugging in the connector nearer to the CPU then you'll be pulling that current further across your board and heating more of the internal layers.

Hopefully it will work just plugging that back in again. If that really is the cause then you've been lucky not to fry your motherboard!

Andy.

 

[Spinal]

If the smaller one has 4 or 8 pins and looks like the diagrams here then that'd be the connector that is usually used to provide the power to your CPU. Some motherboards parallel this up with the 12V supply coming in on the main ATX connector, some use it separately. I'd assume as yours is still working then you have a board that parallels it up

The alarm could be because this is missing and the board itself is getting warm. Your CPU will be drawing probably around 20 or 30A at somewhere below 2V (depending on which particular CPU you have), so the board's inner layers which are used to carry this current will be getting nice and warm. Of course if you're not helping your board by not plugging in the connector nearer to the CPU then you'll be pulling that current further across your board and heating more of the internal layers.

Hopefully it will work just plugging that back in again. If that really is the cause then you've been lucky not to fry your motherboard!

Andy.

Thats the one I thought it was.... but it isn't. The plug coming out of my PSU doesn't even fit... very odd (its a 6-pin plug and connector; the pins are flat, not round). The reason it doesn't fit is the mobo plug doesn't have a notch that the PSU plug needs. Fair enough, they don't fit (I have tried turning it around ).

I took the chance to pop by maplins, some new thermal grease (wow prices have gone up! £8.something for a single-dose tube!). I also vacummed and dusted with compressor the heatsink. Case closed, and fingers crossed. No beeps yet, case temp: 34, cpu temp:42; light load (10%-20%). I'll try a heavier load soon; (guild wars, here I come )

Thanks for the help

Michele

 

[masqueraid]

The MSI MS-6545 has three power connectors. The standard ATX is on the edge of trhe board near the RAM sockets and the IDE controllers, there is a 4-pin connector on the opposite side of the board near the AGP socket and the one I think you are describing which is between the processor and RAM which should be a horizontal socket with a row of 6 round pins each with a narrow rectangular socket next to them.

First make sure the other two sockets are poowered (Usually the board won't run unless both are connected). The third needs a 5v/3v connector. I'm not sure if your PSU will support this or if you can get an adaptor to fit one of your exisitng PSU outputs. Maplins might be able to help. I'll see if I can get any other info later today. This socket supports additional power to your CPU.

But if you're not overclocking or full of dust it does sound as if the CPU is failing

 

[Spinal]

Yups, thats precisely the socket thats disconnected. The other two are fine, the third isn't. That said, it worked for a year before acting up...hmmm..

I'll pop by maplins later, if you have any more info that would be great

Michele

 

[agatward]

That'll be one of these then... As masq said, 3.3V / 5V aux connector used for supplementing the CPU power supply circuit's input. The web site shows round pins but yes the're actually flat.

These connectors are optional under the ATX 1.x spec; but most ATX 2.x PSUs have them fitted.

Hopefully your good dose of compressed air will have fixed the problem though!

Enjoy,

Andy

 

[Spinal]

Right... I've come to the conclusion that the problem is not CPU related. I ran the CPU at 100% for several hours, (RAM @ 20%) and nothing went wrong. The instant I started a few programs together, with the case closed, the beeping started. I am starting to think that it may be the PSU, because otherwise it would not make sense that merely opening the case (without additional fans pointed at it) seem to solve problems.

I must admit, since the dusting, its been alot better... just not perfect yet. later I will swap the audio card down a notch, giving the GFX card more air, and use my aquarium thermo-probe to figure out which components run the hottest... (the ram and the psu seem to generate quite alot of heat atm)

This is starting to get personal

Michele

 

[masqueraid]

You need something like this . You unplug the 20 pin Molex and put this into the motherboard and then the molex on top of it. You then have the two 3.3v and 5v outputs to plug in next to your processor.

Bad news - can't find a supplier on the net in the UK. Maplins sell the plugs but you have to wire them up yourself

Just in case here's the pin out diagram you would need. I'm also unsure if the adaptor illustrated would actually reach between your 20pin ATX socket and the aux socket on your motherboard.

 

[Spinal]

Yeah, that precisely the plug I have. I actually have that cable coming out of my PSU, BUT... (there always is a but) the 6-pin molex from the PSU has a 'ledge' (no idea what they are called... a little protrusion, to indicate which way is "correct") but the connector on the mobo has all the guide-channels closed. I'll take a pic tomorrow as soon as there is a little more light...

I'll be in ascalon for 20 mins or so... just watched United 93... I wasn't expecting anything relaxing, but this was alot more disturbing that I was expecting.
Michele

 

[masqueraid]

How was Ascalon? GW is probably as good a test as any of your system's performance. (Although if your playing single player RPG Oblivion will make it work harder!)

Found this (pdf) which includes the motherboard manual but if the slots are blocked out it may be that you have a variant that does not support and Aux connector. Is this a branded PC or self build?