Parking in private car parks

[markjay]

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/60331/watchdog-clamping-law

I am not supporting cowboy parking 'enforcers', obviously... but I do think that leaving private car parks' owners with no reasonable prospect of stopping people from abusing the permission-to-park isn't such a great idea either....?

 

[LTD]

If I had a private space at my home, which I don't as I have my own driveway on my own land, then I would have a lockable pole installed.

Far less hassle.

Councils, on the other hand, deserve what they get. They waste far too much money employing people that are not good enough for the job required.

 

[MercFanUk]

I wouldn't say they aren't left without a reasonable course of action. The article states that provided they are properly signed up and can prove you were there (cctv etc), they can pursue you in court. Sure they wont get the big fines out like the council can, but they'll still get paid for the time you were there.

Clamping is clearly an archaic way of dealing with overstays and what not, and crazy £120 fines from councils are a joke to say the least.

This way fairer fines will be dished out, with minimal disruption to the overstayer, and people will be more likely to pay a smaller fine up front without court action needed anyway (I would have thought at least).

 

[davidjpowell]

I wouldn't say they aren't left without a reasonable course of action. The article states that provided they are properly signed up and can prove you were there (cctv etc), they can pursue you in court. Sure they wont get the big fines out like the council can, but they'll still get paid for the time you were there.

Clamping is clearly an archaic way of dealing with overstays and what not, and crazy £120 fines from councils are a joke to say the least.

This way fairer fines will be dished out, with minimal disruption to the overstayer, and people will be more likely to pay a smaller fine up front without court action needed anyway (I would have thought at least).

The actual loss to business will normally be quite small in money terms. Most either have spaces thrown in with a lease, or pay a contract amount - hence the hourly loss is probably quite small.

The disruption though caused by staff being unable to enter their parking space, or customers not stopping is not quantifiable in money terms. Some car parks it is not possible to secure with fencing or poles - see customers angle again.

They would have been better regulating the clampers and setting a maximum fee.

As it is the landowners have been very much left unprotected in my view.

 

[MercFanUk]

But surely clamping wont help that situation, it just leaves the suspect car in the parking space for even longer, meaning the space is useless for longer.

 

[davidjpowell]

But surely clamping wont help that situation, it just leaves the suspect car in the parking space for even longer, meaning the space is useless for longer.

What happens in my experience (as a property manager) is once someone has found a 'free' parking space they come back repeatedly.

A large and very visible (which will become ineffective) clamping sign usually deters that in the first place. If they ignore it a clamp makes certain.

What I used to find is that the people who could not get in the spaces were very much happier, apart from the ones who could not park within their spaces or did not bother to put their passes in to the window. They were the ones who usually complained so much in the first place...

 

[markjay]

The only certian way to ensure private car parks do not get abused is by fitting barriers and a ticketing system, which incurs costs both in installing and in maintaining the barrier.

Otherwise, what's to stop someone from parking on private land? Why pay, if the worst that can happen is that your are caught and made to pay the hourly rate you would have paid anyway?

Clamping is a form on enforcement ensuring that anyone abusing the car park will be forced to pay an agreed sum. It was unregulated and in turn abused by the clampers...

Surely some middle-of-the-road solution can be found to guarantee property owners' rights while still protecting the public from cowboy clampers?

 

[davidjpowell]

The only certian way to ensure private car parks do not get abused is by fitting barriers and a ticketing system, which incurs costs both in installing and in maintaining the barrier.

Otherwise, what's to stop someone from parking on private land? Why pay, if the worst that can happen is that your are caught and made to pay the hourly rate you would have paid anyway?

Clamping is a form on enforcement ensuring that anyone abusing the car park will be forced to pay an agreed sum. It was unregulated and in turn abused by the clampers...

Surely some middle-of-the-road solution can be found to guarantee property owners' rights while still protecting the public from cowboy clampers?

Say you have a showroom unit on a trading estate with pull in parking at the front for customers. Quite typical in the UK. You can't fence it because you pull in off the road, and posts won't work as your customers do not have keys. How do you stop the people next door parking in it?

 

[MercFanUk]

There are issues like above that need addressing, but I seriously think clamping isn't the answer.

Say you overstay at a car park - by sheer accident (done this myself more than once). You return to a clamped car. You can't afford to pay the fine straight off the bat, you lose access to your car for a short period and then what? You're screwed - for the simple matter of parking somewhere for too long, or the wrong place quite possibly by accident.

Restricting the use of one's car should never be used in such a trivial case IMO.

Much simpler to make it much easier for repeat offenders or even one off's to be forcibly charged via a governing body of some sort, with real power to hit non payers through the courts.

 

[st13phil]

Otherwise, what's to stop someone from parking on private land? Why pay, if the worst that can happen is that your are caught and made to pay the hourly rate you would have paid anyway?

While there will always be the odd inconsiderate b'stard who will abuse things, I always find it instructive to look for the root cause of a problem.

I can't help but notice that the only places where (normally reasonable) people try it on by abusing private parking is where there is an inadequate supply of free parking in the locale. Perhaps if railways and councils were to provide an adequate quantity of free parking, private landlords wouldn't experience abuse of their facilities on such a level? Just a thought...

 

[davidjpowell]

There are issues like above that need addressing, but I seriously think clamping isn't the answer.

Say you overstay at a car park - by sheer accident (done this myself more than once). You return to a clamped car. You can't afford to pay the fine straight off the bat, you lose access to your car for a short period and then what? You're screwed - for the simple matter of parking somewhere for too long, or the wrong place quite possibly by accident.

Restricting the use of one's car should never be used in such a trivial case IMO.

Much simpler to make it much easier for repeat offenders or even one off's to be forcibly charged via a governing body of some sort, with real power to hit non payers through the courts.

I don't think there was a real level of clamping for time expired tickets - more people who should not have been there in the first place.

I have no sympathy for those who ignored the signs. I do have for those who were caught out by poor signage.

Back when I had a town centre parking space, they did not clamp, but we all knew each others cars, so if someone had stolen my reserved space I would park blocking them in. It was sometimes a very long phone call before I could get out to move the car...

 

[MercFanUk]

Ah see I'm thinking along the lines of small privately owned car parks than private parking spaces. That's a tougher subject, and I imagine a whole lot harder to 'police'.

 

[Peter Hill]

Round here

Round here when some wally sticks a clamp on a car, they usually ring the local motor enthusiast. A quick wizz with an angle grinder solves the problem, and is much cheaper than those ridiculous clamping charges.

No-one likes clampers.

P.

 

[Stratman]

As of today it's now an offence to clamp a vehicle on private land in England. However, landowners can now claim against the registered keeper of the vehicle for unpaid charges.

 

[PXW]

As of today it's now an offence to clamp a vehicle on private land in England. However, landowners can now claim against the registered keeper of the vehicle for unpaid charges.

I have no problem with this for car park operators - the clamping and often very high 'release fees' were often hugely out of proportion to the 'offence' - as I understand it now, if a car park owner can demonstrate he has suffered a loss as a result of the overstaying/non-paying parker, then he can recoup that loss - which puts him about level with everyone else, in that you can recover your damages but nothing punitive.

I think there is still an issue, as others have mentioned, where the space in question is a private space, especially as the 'clamping' ban also applies to towing away or blocking in. So when I visit my daughter, and her neighbour has (yet again) parked his second car in her dedicated space, I can't park across the front of him (banned), can't call the building management people to remove the vehicle (banned) and they can't clamp him (banned). So all they can do is suggest he makes a voluntary payment of something they might call a penalty.

In theory he is probably violating some term or other in his lease, but again any redress under that is unlikely - can't see a court upholding voiding the lease and kicking the guy out of his home because he's not a very good neighbour....

 

[Druk]

Clamping has been illegal in Scotland for many years now, nor do supermarkets charge for parking. There doesn't seem to me too much abuse of the system although admittedly there are fewer cars per sq ml than in Angland. A recent visit by us to the Yorkshire Dales had us gobsmacked at the upfront greed for parking at some of the places we visited.

 

[A-AvantGarde]

... A recent visit by us to the Yorkshire Dales had us gobsmacked at the upfront greed for parking at some of the places we visited.

You may want to have a look at the prices for some London car parks

 

[davidjpowell]

A recent visit by us to the Yorkshire Dales had us gobsmacked at the upfront greed for parking at some of the places we visited.

There is a specific cowboy operator based in the dales. He operates sharply, but all it would take is a genuine and compulsory independent tribunal with a cap on fee's to bring him into line.

 

[Druk]

You may want to have a look at the prices for some London car parks

Indeed. Edinburgh is the same.
But for rural northern areas I'm surprised they get away with it. Compare the Dales with a town in the Scottish Borders for instance, or Bathgate where I stay. Free council parking and no charging for Park and Ride at the station or at Tesco/Morrison/et al. Encourages locals to shop local.
Try parking in Hawes in Wensleydale for free while you shop for a 1/2hour. Everyone, it seems, is at the take.