Party wall agreement

[Tan]

Hi

With the wealth of knowledge that the forum has, I hope that someone will be able to help with my question.

We are building a single storey rear extension and I am getting conflicting advice regards if we need a PWA agreement.

A couple of party wall agreement firms say we do (but its business to them and not in their best interests to say that we don't).

However, my builder and from reading the PW act, I now think we don't.

The foundations we are digging go no lower than 2.2 metres from our patio, that adjoins our neighbours patio, both houses (adjoining semi detached) have basements of about 2 metres deep.

Adjacent excavation and construction.

(1)This section applies where—
(a)a building owner proposes to excavate, or excavate for and erect a building or structure, within a distance of three metres measured horizontally from any part of a building or structure of an adjoining owner; and

(b)any part of the proposed excavation, building or structure will within those three metres extend to a lower level than the level of the bottom of the foundations of the building or structure of the adjoining owner.

(2)This section also applies where—
(a)a building owner proposes to excavate, or excavate for and erect a building or structure, within a distance of six metres measured horizontally from any part of a building or structure of an adjoining owner; and

(b)any part of the proposed excavation, building or structure will within those six metres meet a plane drawn downwards in the direction of the excavation, building or structure of the building owner at an angle of forty-five degrees to the horizontal from the line formed by the intersection of the plane of the level of the bottom of the foundations of the building or structure of the adjoining owner with the plane of the external face of the external wall of the building or structure of the adjoining owner.

My interpretation is that we are within 3 metres, but not going below his foundations, thus don't need a PWA.

I am interested to know if my logic is right or over optimistic.

Thanks

Tan

 

[TheFoX]

You could ask Building Control at your local council for advise. After all, they would know because it is them that signs off work.

 

[brucemillar]

Tan

I hope you are well my friend (long time no see).

As above. Building controls are your friend, along with a Structural Engineer's Report.

Make sure that you have both in writing!!

These things have a habit of coming back to you. Usually when your neighbour starts some work of their own, or one of you, wants to sell your house.

A "simple" removal of a gable end wall and replace it with a glass wall. Was complicated by vague building advice.

In the end, I paid a structural engineer about £450 for a full report that included signed "Building Regs" and some other certificate of conformance (cant recall the name). This shows that the local authorities agreed too and signed off on, all the works down. It effectively protects me against future issues were I to sell or be sued by a neighbour.

£450 well spent. Five years after the work was completed, a "new" neighbour tried to object on the grounds, that our glass wall allowed us to overlook his property. No contest. One look at the certificate and his case was dropped.

 

[zipdip]

As Bruce has said,get the council to approve what you want to do in writing,you seem to be building right up to or on a boundary,this can cause problems,so take some time to get this issue sorted as Bruce says,failure to dot the T's will come back at you if you want to sell the place,because today it is a giant paper chase,the more certs and approvals you have the easier it is.

 

[fabes]

Echo what is said above from our experience of an extension

 

[Tan]

Thanks guys, we have now had confirmation from the party wall surveyor, structural engineer and building control have agreed.

 

[Mike Walker]

Tan Hi
Have only just picked up this thread.

It appears that you have covered the situation but just for completeness do you have all of their recommendations " in writing" to keep on file for if / when you want to sell the property.

Have you, or your Party Wall Surveyor, or both discussed and agreed the position with your neighbour and do you/ they have the agreement you have entered into in writing too.

It is not my intention to worry you but having all of this formally recorded in writing is vital for your protection. Any doubts please PM me.

Good luck

Mike

 

[brucemillar]

Tan Hi Have only just picked up this thread. It appears that you have covered the situation but just for completeness do you have all of their recommendations " in writing" to keep on file for if / when you want to sell the property. Have you, or your Party Wall Surveyor, or both discussed and agreed the position with your neighbour and do you/ they have the agreement you have entered into in writing too. It is not my intention to worry you but having all of this formally recorded in writing is vital for your protection. Any doubts please PM me. Good luck Mike

Very sound advice Tan. It can and does come back.

 

[Headhurts]

We had an issue where a resident built an extension up to his boundary but the footings went into the neighbouring land, this can be problematic particularly when you come to sell.


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[brucemillar]

The chap up the road from us, decided to sell up and move to Spain. His plans fell into disarray when his buyer instructed a surveyor, to obtain a mortgage.

It was then found that his large garage/annex had been built without the correct regs or to the correct specs. This had been done by a previous owner!!

The eventual solution was:

a) Discount the sale price to allow for a tear down and rebuild by the buyer.
b) Tear down and rebuild at his own expense.
c) Try to sue the previous owner (who denied all knowledge)

I believe that the issue was the foundations were not dug deep enough and the rood tresses were not of a strong enough spec. None of which was evident until the property was surveyed at the time of sale.

He sold to the buyer at a £75k discount and the buyer then had the work done.

The lesson being (to me) that had he had the paperwork in place when he purchased then this would not have been his issue.

 

[ShinyF1]

The chap up the road from us, decided to sell up and move to Spain. His plans fell into disarray when his buyer instructed a surveyor, to obtain a mortgage. It was then found that his large garage/annex had been built without the correct regs or to the correct specs. This had been done by a previous owner!! The eventual solution was: a) Discount the sale price to allow for a tear down and rebuild by the buyer. b) Tear down and rebuild at his own expense. c) Try to sue the previous owner (who denied all knowledge) I believe that the issue was the foundations were not dug deep enough and the rood tresses were not of a strong enough spec. None of which was evident until the property was surveyed at the time of sale. He sold to the buyer at a £75k discount and the buyer then had the work done. The lesson being (to me) that had he had the paperwork in place when he purchased then this would not have been his issue.

I think you can buy an insurance policy to indemnify the new purchaser?

 

[Tan]

Hi

Thanks for the advice chaps, my neighbour is not happy that we now don't need a party wall agreement and is saying that something unorthodox is going on and what happens if something happens to his property.

I am tempted to request photos of the present condition, but don't want to imply that if something does happen that we are responsible.

If something were to happen during or after our build, how do we know what the cause is? Or is the law basically saying that if we are not going below his foundations then we are not responsible.

Regards

Tan

 

[brucemillar]

Tan

Your neighbour " is not happy" that is a red flag.

Going ahead without proper regulatory sign off from the local council could crucify you should anything go wrong either now or in the future.

For £450 (that is what I paid) all of that stress was removed.

I got:

A building regulations survey and certificate that clearly states that ALL of the works are in compliance and correct.

A certified structural surveyors report that matches the above and demonstrates that all proper precautions have been observed.

A legal certificate of compliance that gives me the legal right to have the work carried out and can be used in any dispute for the future.

You only have to have your neighbour being upset and noticing a crack to force a legal dispute that could cost you far more than any works and result in you being forced to make right any "damage" to their property.

 

[Tan]

Hi Bruce

Thanks for your reply, is the building regs survey and building regs by local authority building control the same thing?

We have report from the structural engineer and this has confirmed that foundation depth has been agreed with local authority.

I will enquire how we get a legal certificate of compliance.

Regards

Tan

 

[developer]

I had a party wall award granted when my neighbour didn't want me to build close to his boundary, despite having got planning permission - he was planning to refuse my contractors any access at all.

I was responsible for paying for both PW solicitors - as the overall beneficiary.

The award was granted in my favour - the solicitors weren't interested in the neighbour dispute - the award is to enable to build to take place in a timely and safe manner, so it was invaluable to me.

Despite this, at one point my neighbour refused my contractor access to his side entrance to render my building - I contacted the police and they said "it's a civil matter". I told them of my PWA and because of it they attended, ordered him to grant my contractor access (he'd locked his side gate) and told him if he didn't, they'd arrest him for breach of the peace.

In the overall scheme of a costly build programme, I'd get it done - it will give you control back, in the event of a dispute.

 

[brucemillar]

Hi Bruce Thanks for your reply, is the building regs survey and building regs by local authority building control the same thing? We have report from the structural engineer and this has confirmed that foundation depth has been agreed with local authority. I will enquire how we get a legal certificate of compliance. Regards Tan

Tan I would call your council planning team and discuss. They will know.

 

[Mike Walker]

Building Control will issue a Certificate on the basis that they have inspected the works and all necessary fees - Plans submittals / Inspections - have been fully paid. I have responded to your PM too.