Petrol in a CDI

[fredfloggle]

I would think a complete engine write off was a result of a less than 100% fill - still allowing relatively symptonless running , and a prolonged high speed run - I would doubt you would burn a valve or piston unless you were booting it -
The nature of the fuel system renders it liable to such damage though , whatever the duty of the engine.

 

[Rory]

There are plenty of stories about company car drivers who have wrongly fueled various makes of car, had the fuel sucked out and replaced with diesel, and then gone on to do high mileages with no problems.

There's a story somewhere on either this or the other MB forum of an MB dealer who did it to a brand-new car immediately prior to delivery.

 

[Flash]

I have known people that when told to 'Top up the oil' have quite literally taken off the oil filler cap and kept putting oil in, until it over flowed the filler cap opening. Who said I bet it was a woman?

Not that long ago I was at a petrol station and filled up my CDI car with diesel as per normal. As I was going in to pay I saw a nice looking "lady" looking a little bit distressed. She was topping up her coolant with water as the low warning light had come on and the car was over heating. I asked if she was ok and she explained what she was doing. I had observed her remove the engine oil cap and she was about to top it with water until I stopped her . Needless to say I had taken the bottle of mineral water from her and topped up the coolant level with it myself. Just as well as I carefully removed the cap so that the pressure did not make the exisiting contents go flying and make a mess, as well as cause injury which she had no idea until I explained and demonstarted to her.

Made me smile as she gave me a peck on the cheek afterwards.

 

[mark.t]

filling up with the wrong fuel is down to ownership house keeping, ....some would say leased cars company cars etc could be more prone as the drivers are not owners with time issues and being very busy they possibly don't have the same level of time to care for the vehicle ,...so next time I buy a merc I would out the fuel issue on my list ...and ask them to check on the computer for any such related work I mean it should be logged somewhere and if not ...but most important maybe Mercedes Benz should be logging this work down for the buyer to check as its a very easy mistake to make and could happen more than once and be very damaging to the engine....maybe they do a check on trade in's deals that are done ...just a thought

 

[Flash]

and ask them to check on the computer for any such related work I mean it should be logged somewhere and if not ...but most important maybe Mercedes Benz should be logging this work down for the buyer to check as its a very easy mistake to make and could happen more than once and be very damaging to the engine....maybe they do a check on trade in's deals that are done ...just a thought

In practise it should be logged on the central system that DC UK have for the Stealerships BUT only warranty work is logged on this system! Additional work/job orders that are raised and not covered my MB are NOT recorded on the central system. Therefore, you would never know if a fuel mishap was to have happened on the car you are buying unless you knew which Stealer (s) had carried out all the work on the car and ask them to look up all the job orders raised for that vehicle. Stealer A could have serviced the car (this would not show on the central system), Stealer B have carried out warranty work (this would be recorded on the central system) and Stealer C could have carried out additional work orders i.e. putting wrong type of fuel in to the car (this would not be recorded on the central system).

 

[aka$h]

Ive searching the web and it seems BP openly admit there is an issue with the colouring of their pumps and as a reslut have paid out fo hundreds of these 'mis-haps'. In our case, my Dad had been driving the E320 coupe all morning and filled up at the last services when we swapped cars. Its a mistake which Ive almost made, I put the unleaded pump in and realised what I was going before I started filling.

Usually when i stop for fuel Ive got a hundred and one things on my mind, and im in a rush, but I think I had better start paying more attention to saving £5k!

 

[fredfloggle]

In practise it should be logged on the central system that DC UK have for the Stealerships BUT only warranty work is logged on this system! Additional work/job orders that are raised and not covered my MB are NOT recorded on the central system. Therefore, you would never know if a fuel mishap was to have happened on the car you are buying unless you knew which Stealer (s) had carried out all the work on the car and ask them to look up all the job orders raised for that vehicle. Stealer A could have serviced the car (this would not show on the central system), Stealer B have carried out warranty work (this would be recorded on the central system) and Stealer C could have carried out additional work orders i.e. putting wrong type of fuel in to the car (this would not be recorded on the central system).

You can find out what you want about my car , when you have bought it - what is this ? Big Brother ?
If I found that any dealer passed info to a 3rd party regarding my vehicle without my consent - they would live to regret it .

 

[Rory]

We have both petrol and diesel cars and I've got into the habit of putting the nozzle in place, then stepping back and rechecking that I've picked up the right one *before* I start fueling.
Have the people who say it's stupid to get it wrong never made a single mistake in their whole lives - I wonder if they all drive on third party insurance, there's surely no reason for them to have fully comp as they'll never crash!

 

[Flash]

You can find out what you want about my car , when you have bought it - what is this ? Big Brother ?
If I found that any dealer passed info to a 3rd party regarding my vehicle without my consent - they would live to regret it .

The thing is you will NEVER know when or IF someone has obtained info on your car/work carried out by a Stealership (s).

Some of you may have read my thread (W208 Cab or R129 - I’m looking to get a second car in the new year and only keep it for approximately one year – well I am now planning on getting another MB (it is not a 208 cab or a R129) and have increased my budget and was able to so some research on a car from two different stealerships and the work was not recorded on the central system.

PS. I will announce what the car is when I have purchased it.

 

[MangoMan]

I think this mistake has become more prevailant in recent times, because of 'Multi-Grade Pumps'. In the past, Diesel & Petrol pumps were completely seperate, sometimes even occupying different sides of the forecourt.

I have done it myself, putting Diesel in a Petrol, quite easy at BP Ultimate pumps! Especially when you've been waiting in a queue and just want a 'Splash & Dash'!

Now I always look & double check before I start pumping! Takes a couple of seconds, and can save your days.

Amazingly I still managed to get home with about a 60% - 40% Diesel/Petrol mix. I hadn't realised I had made the mistake until I went back to the garage, remembering which pump I had used!

Bring back the days of seperate 'Pumps'...........

Ciao.

ps. Merry Christmas to All.........

 

[fredfloggle]

The thing is you will NEVER know when or IF someone has obtained info on your car/work carried out by a Stealership (s).

Some of you may have read my thread (W208 Cab or R129 - I’m looking to get a second car in the new year and only keep it for approximately one year – well I am now planning on getting another MB (it is not a 208 cab or a R129) and have increased my budget and was able to so some research on a car from two different stealerships and the work was not recorded on the central system.

PS. I will announce what the car is when I have purchased it.

All joking aside - any information like this is privileged - if the car is on the dealer forecourt - that is one thing , but if any dealer gives you such information on service history etc , he may well be in breach of the DPA , and also would be failing in his duty to provide a duty of care and confidentiality to a client . MB need to tread very carefully - if they provide info that causes the loss of a sale , then they may well be liable to pay damages as a result - and quite possibly worse .
A few policemen a few years ago lost their jobs for making money out of the PNC , a few Merc dealers would also be down the road if the same thing was found to be happening .

 

[splitpin]

All joking aside - any information like this is privileged - if the car is on the dealer forecourt - that is one thing , but if any dealer gives you such information on service history etc , he may well be in breach of the DPA , and also would be failing in his duty to provide a duty of care and confidentiality to a client . MB need to tread very carefully - if they provide info that causes the loss of a sale , then they may well be liable to pay damages as a result - and quite possibly worse .
A few policemen a few years ago lost their jobs for making money out of the PNC , a few Merc dealers would also be down the road if the same thing was found to be happening .

Precisely that. Computer logging of servicing information on cars is limited & the information available to a prospective purchaser is consequently imperfect & not readily available.

Reverting back to my original query & trying to eliminate the possibility of purchasing a secondhand CDI model that has been filled & possibly run with
petrol in it. I had considered that it would be extremely difficult to ascertain.

Resulting from some of the interesting comments above, I remain convinced
that I am utterly correct. Sadly it will significantly limit my choice & will take time to find.

Splitpin

 

[MangoMan]

Avatar....

In case you are wondering what it is exactly, here it is full size.......

Ciao & Merry Christmas.......

 

[fredfloggle]

Thankfully so !

What would you do if MB replied back and told you "no , it has not been filled up with petrol " , only to find out it was filled up with veg oil ? they did after all tell you the truth .


The service history of my car is nothing to do with you until you buy it .

I haven't heard anything like this before . Next you will do a scratch and sniff test to make sure no one has blown off in it !

You will never find your car unless you buy new , and even then , you don't know what the dealer has done to it .

 

[Dieselman]

The damage that could occur is too variable to risk it - I personally think that a full fill in an empty tank would be less damaging than a long exposure to say a 50/50 mix - but I am sure someone else will have a differing opinion .
I personally have never fallen from grace with the filler nozzle - and I do wonder sometimes how it happens - OK years ago , cars weren't covered in 4' high stickers stating the fuel type , but now , they are .
For anybody to make this mistake twice , suggests a level of concentration that should proclude driving anything larger than a lawnmower .

Fred I agree with you about drivers abilities and concentration.

Just to let you know. Petrol into a MB common rail diesel is a big no, no. It usually wrecks the fuel pump and injectors very quickly.

The standard fix is new pump, rail, injectors, tank off and thorough flush, new fuel lines, filters etc.

The petrol doesn't provide the lubrication the high pressure fuel pump needs so it just chews itself to bits very quickly.
This is why it's so hard to make a direct injection petrol engine.

Akash definately did the right thing not starting the car. Pushing the car away from the pump is worth about £100 per foot.

 

[glojo]

I have been reliably informed that petrol, run in CDI engines will manifest itself
eventually in substantial damage (As Dieselman indicates above) & to ensure that a previously infected car is never considered for purchase.

I intend to purchase an 04/54 270 cdi soon, what are the checks necessary
to ensure that the engine has not run with petrol in it?

How would you establish that the car was "clean" ??

Splitpin

I personally think you are worrying yourself into an early grave. In life there are so many 'what if's' we would all make ourselves ill with worrying.

I am always more concerned about accident damage as opposed to mechanical problems. Buy from a reputable supplier and make sure you get some type of warranty.

If your worried about this minimal risk then simply buy a petrol powered vehicle and miss out on getting the car you really want.

John

 

[splitpin]

I personally think you are worrying yourself into an early grave. In life there are so many 'what if's' we would all make ourselves ill with worrying.

I am always more concerned about accident damage as opposed to mechanical problems. Buy from a reputable supplier and make sure you get some type of warranty.

If your worried about this minimal risk then simply buy a petrol powered vehicle and miss out on getting the car you really want.

John

Thats fair comment

Be assured that I am not an ingrained worrier & that,at my age, if I die tomorrow it most certainly will not be an early grave

I simply wanted to extract opinions from knowledgeable members to aid me on
that particular subject, which, thanks to Dieselman & others has been achieved.
I do admit to be exacting when purchasing a secondhand car.

Splitpin

 

[glojo]

I do admit to be exacting when purchasing a secondhand car.

Splitpin

Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Happy hunting.

Regards,
John

 

[SamR]

Petrol in Diesel Thoughts?

Okay, I've read all the threads... I always imagined you'd need to be a bit dozy to put in the wrong fuel (never said as much, but I thought it!)> So it's official, I'm a bit dozy!

Yesterday I went to fill the 220CDI, at Shell, I'd run it on the fuel light for some time and was on 0.9 gallon. I thought I'd treat the motor to the premium fuel. Shell V-Power, advertised all around the fore court. V-Power... V-Power, yes, I thought my car deserves V-Power! At my pump regular Diesel, regular unleaded (Green) and V-Power (Red!). Yes, I put in the V-Power... the price was up in the 90s, that much more than regular Diesel and the Unleaded... So I brimmed it to the top!

Started the car, and drove off, a bit of traffic and then A1 dual carriageway. Anyway 400m later splutter, splutter, white smoke ECU warning on dash and car dies. I managed to pull over... Call mobilo, "we'll have to charge for recovery etc etc". Called main deal, "can't look at it until after the weekend". Called another, "You haven't driven it have you!", "errr yes", we'll have to change filter, fuel lines and then see what damage is done etc. Not going to be cheap!.

So I got recovered by Lantern, the chap there says "aahh you've no worries, you haven't gone far". "We do about 5 a day of wrong fuel you should be fine". So 2 hours later £200 for sucking out the V-Power, and my car is back on the road. It sounds a little smoother/quieter, perhaps the flush has done it good?

So, I've driven another 40-50 miles since, starts fine, no faults on the computer, now filled with Diesel. Car seems good...

Did I get away with it, or should I be doing some urgent maintenance? If it's already damaged, I may aswell run it until something becomes obvious? Or is there a just I was just lucky and there are no problems?

I don't know, my daught said "Dad, how comes, it's never your fault". I think she has a point. So, it's good for my humility, I made a stupid mistake, easily done as I thought I was putting in Diesel, I only realised it was true when I walked back and checked the pump... Still a bit miffed...

Interested to hear your thoughts.

 

[Dieselman]

Well there's not much you can do now so just drive it.

How come you didn't smell the petrol fumes??