Problem tenant and gaining access

[marty359]

Can anyone help with this?

I have a problem tenant that I've had issues with for a long time and I have issued a section 21.

Amongst various problems the tenant has caused the roof has a leak that is damaging the ceiling and walls in one of the rooms, they have complained about this for a long time but every time I try to get someone round to look and get it repaired the tenant says they are busy, ill, had to go out in an emergency, didn't hear the door bell blah blah blah

I've now had enough of being pished about and even the letting agent is starting to distance themselves from it the agent says just leave all the repairs until the tenant is out but I don't want to leave the roof any longer.

So my question is can I give the tenant say 48 hours notice to access the property even if they are not there? I could arrange it all again with the tenant but i'm pretty sure there will be another excuse


Thanks in advance

 

[Piff]

So my question is can I give the tenant say 48 hours notice to access the property even if they are not there?

There should be something in the tenancy agreement - get your agent to check it.

 

[developer]

Unfortunately no, you have no right of access, even following written notice if your tenant plays hardball.

However, your tenant may not know this so I'd compose a letter.

Also, we have a Private Tenancy Team belonging to the council, who's role is to mediate. See if there's an equivalent in your area.

Be very careful of being accused of harassment - it's a fine line you have to tread.

Ensure you log every contact/outcome and keep the agent in the look as you may need their support if things get sh*tty.

 

[markjay]

I always thought that the Landlord had right to access in case of emergency? e.g. a leak from a flat causing damage to flat below?

 

[flango]

Can anyone help with this? I have a problem tenant that I've had issues with for a long time and I have issued a section 21. Amongst various problems the tenant has caused the roof has a leak that is damaging the ceiling and walls in one of the rooms, they have complained about this for a long time but every time I try to get someone round to look and get it repaired the tenant says they are busy, ill, had to go out in an emergency, didn't hear the door bell blah blah blah I've now had enough of being pished about and even the letting agent is starting to distance themselves from it the agent says just leave all the repairs until the tenant is out but I don't want to leave the roof any longer. So my question is can I give the tenant say 48 hours notice to access the property even if they are not there? I could arrange it all again with the tenant but i'm pretty sure there will be another excuse Thanks in advance

Only just seen this thread as SWMBO is an expert in housing law. Developers post is correct but you have options.

Firstly check your section 21 is legal SWMBO says of all the section 21 s she sees 98% are illegal it has to be at least 56 days from the date it is served and needs to expire the day after the normal due rent date most people get this wrong

First option contact your council Community Protection Unit (formerly environmental health) get them to make a joint appointment with you the Landlord. They have more power than you if the tenant acts up as you describe the CPU will enter it into court for an access order which will be quicker than the section 21

Alternatively serve a section 8 which is two weeks notice but you have to cite and evidence this. Not easy to do and prove.

SWMBO says local Council CPU is your fastest way of getting in

Under no circumstances enter on your own

Just PM me if you need to discuss specifics with her

 

[John Jones Jr]

I always thought that the Landlord had right to access in case of emergency? e.g. a leak from a flat causing damage to flat below?

Developer could answer the legal position there, my view is no. Now, if it was an emergency, there's no issue with the police or fire brigade entering.

If I was in this position as a landlord, I'd just enter the property as any tenant not willing for their own benefit to cooperate to facilitate repairs like water leaks is usually a thick as sh1t or has something to hide. Mind, I'd have weighed up the tenant before hand as even the thick can suddenly become legal eagles. A registered letter in post advising a repair is going to be carried out and offering two different days/time might be just job.

Tricky one and I probably haven't helped.

 

[Piff]

I've currently got a flat rented out to a housing association who in turn have let it to a tenant (let me say here that said tenant would not be someone I would entertain but housing association has guaranteed 3 yrs rent on a property that needed a good refurb when they took it over.)
Twice I have been called in for maintenance issues, 1 caused by the tenant and 1 genuine. The first occasion the tenant was on away on holiday & it was deemed ok for me to carry out the repair while they were away. The second time I left a voice mail to say when I was visiting, when I arrived there was no reply at the door so I let myself in. Tenant arrived home half way through the repair & didn't seem botherer that I was there.
Different types of people I guess.

 

[marty359]

Thanks for the help. I'll reply again later but I've already been down the section 8 route after advice from the letting agents legal team. We have free legal cover but out solicitor noticed that they were in arrears 1 day short of the full 2 months so had to issue a section 21

 

[dinoy]

if there is an emergency u can give 48 hour notice and enter with or without them being present to protect and prevent emergency from spreading, alternatively if u have emergency insurance cover invoke it

 

[developer]

The second time I left a voice mail to say when I was visiting, when I arrived there was no reply at the door so I let myself in. Tenant arrived home half way through the repair & didn't seem botherer that I was there.
Different types of people I guess.

A good situation - I regularly conduct repairs whilst the tenant isn't in, but only after they have agreed to us being there.

Unfortunately, Marty's tenant appears to be denying access - a whole different ball game

A landlord I know didn't handle an obstructive tenant correctly, and is now being sued for harrassment - not good.

 

[guydewdney]

If its the roof, cant you effect repairs, at least temporary ones, externally thus not entering the building?

 

[flango]

A good situation - I regularly conduct repairs whilst the tenant isn't in, but only after they have agreed to us being there.

Unfortunately, Marty's tenant appears to be denying access - a whole different ball game

A landlord I know didn't handle an obstructive tenant correctly, and is now being sued for harassment - not good.

This is what SWMBO was saying and why its so important to have correctly written and worded tenancy agreements that are not ambiguous and open to interpretation. Then if it does go to court you are dealing with fact not a persons interpretation of the fact.

I didn't realize the power the tenant actually had and how difficult it can be for a landlord to take action or even gain access to their property. SWMBO has spent a lot of time in court recently relating to NOSP and what a minefield. She has also spent a lot of time defending harassment claims as Developer mentions, so if you have an awkward tenant its best to tread carefully and follow the letter of the law in cooperation with the local council's CPU

 

[davidjpowell]

Flango and Developer are giving good advice.

Please make sure you completely disregard any advice suggesting letting yourself in with notice. It's potentially letting you in for big trouble if your tenant is so minded.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Put a hosepipe through the letterbox and pump in a gas that will render the tenants unconscious for a few hours, and in the meantime fix the roof, then by the time they wake up from their daze they'll be none the wiser.

 

[Simon_M]

Very Russian...

 

[Meldrew2]

Put a hosepipe through the letterbox and pump in liquid concrete that will render the tenants immobile. When the concrete has completely filled the house your leaky roof will no longer be a problem.

 

[marty359]

I always thought that the Landlord had right to access in case of emergency? e.g. a leak from a flat causing damage to flat below?

Me too, I was after some sort of loophole to enter

A good situation - I regularly conduct repairs whilst the tenant isn't in, but only after they have agreed to us being there.

Unfortunately, Marty's tenant appears to be denying access - a whole different ball game

A landlord I know didn't handle an obstructive tenant correctly, and is now being sued for harrassment - not good.

I've already been down the harassment route, when the rent standing order was cancelled and no payment received for 5 days a phone call in the morning and a text at night saying "rent?" is classed as harassment. The reply was I will pay if and when i'm ready

If its the roof, cant you effect repairs, at least temporary ones, externally thus not entering the building?

It's in the gulley round the back, I installed a large gate to prevent access to the rear garden and apparently I cant cut the lock off and replace it

Put a hosepipe through the letterbox and pump in a gas that will render the tenants unconscious permanently and then let the dog that shouldn't be there anyway eat the body, job done

^^


The back door at the property let in a small amount of water after a downpour so the tenant pulls the lino up and calls to say you need to come round a fit new flooring Er no, you should of called me to assess the damage a small amount of water does not justify ripping the floor up!

The tenant then gets made redundant and rent has now stopped and a separate standing order to pay previous arrears is cancelled too. We set up a payment plan so at least we have some money coming in.

I get someone round to price up a new back door and when that's fitted I'll tackle the flooring job, problem after problem getting access to the property and finally a month later the door is replaced. Next job is to replace the floor but after more failed attempts to get in I give her the flooring company's number to arrange access.....4 months later there is still no flooring in the kitchen but every conversation, text and email is logged so we cant be blamed for failing to repair.

Then the arrears payment plan stops as one room is uninhabitable due to the roof leaking and no kitchen floor. WELL LET THE CONTRACTORS IN TO SORT IT THEN Tenants then call the local MP about repairs and contact the council, the council then call me and ask about our 2 bedroom house and the tenant, I tell the council all the problems and state it's a 3 bed house not 2.

The letting agents debt department start to hound them for rent and it starts getting paid again but then December arrives and I say to the wife she's going to have a free Christmas on us this year and yep the rent is not paid at this point I blow my top and the letting agents legal team serve a section 8 under the grounds of persistently late with rent, 2 months in arrears and one I've forgot so they have to be out Christmas eve. I felt bad as they have kids but I knew they wouldn't move out as easy as that.

In the meantime I discover our landlord insurance has £25k of legal fees so we instruct them to plough on into it and get them out, then the solicitor comes back with the section 8 will not be a full 2 months in arrears and if they arrive at court with the kids it might be thrown out so we then issue a section 21 FFS

Now they are in receipt of housing benefit, which gets paid directly to the letting agent. That caused a major commotion too.

I really cant believe how much power a tenant can have over a property. So far we have done everything by the book and tried many times to repair. The wife gets so upset by all of this as she feels the tenant always wants the upper hand and to be in control.

Excuse the grammar and thanks for all the info and replies

 

[guydewdney]

I wouldnt have been sble to type that that clearly. Unless you have a military grade keyboard . ..... good luck.

 

[prprandall51]

When you do get in, can you harvest me a couple of ounces from the tips of the plants, they're always the best bit.

 

[Simon_M]

Why can't you just give them notice? Presuming it is a month or something?

Try living in Switzerland, landlord is king - we have to pay to maintain/fix/replace all his appliances and plumbing, plus redecorate so it is 'as new' when we move out, not to mention the £7000 stuck in ESCROW as deposit which the landlord has upto 1 year after we move out to release.

Very impressed with your patience, good on you for that.

S