Questions, questions…😎😎

markjay

MB Master
SUPPORTER
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
36,908
Location
London
Car
W204 C180 Executive SE 2013 Automatic / COMAND NTG4.7 and Morel speakers fitted by www.comand.co.uk
It's all that, granted, but on the plus side EVs do remove harmful pollution away from city centers, which is where most people live and work. So there's that.
 

Rich764089

Active Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2020
Messages
692
Location
Lincolnshire
Car
E63 AMG S212 5.5, Land Rover 110, BMW 750i, Octavia vRS, Honda Jazz, LDV Maxus camper, +
It's all that, granted, but on the plus side EVs do remove harmful pollution away from city centers, which is where most people live and work. So there's that.
Agreed 👍
 

markjay

MB Master
SUPPORTER
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
36,908
Location
London
Car
W204 C180 Executive SE 2013 Automatic / COMAND NTG4.7 and Morel speakers fitted by www.comand.co.uk
A not often discussed side of EVs is the strategic overview.

Having lots and lots of vehicles produce their own energy on the run (I.e. ICE cars) provides a level of resilience and independence. All these cars need is some suitable liquid (or gas) to burn. Each ICE carries its own small energy generator / power plant.

With EVs, the energy production is done centrally, away from the consumer units (EV cars). So it's very easy to flick the switch and grind the entire fleet to a halt (bar those owners who have Diesel generators). Not much resilience there.

However, the central energy production has one crucial element: you can change the energy source without the consumer unit even knowing about it.

We see how any change to ICE cars via legislation and regulations takes years, decades even, to complete, because there are millions of owners that will each need to change their cars.

In contrast, the national greed can be fed from coal plants, gas turbines, solar, wind, hydroelectric, nuclear....... as long as the consumer unit gets its electricity, car owners won't care how it's produced.

And this is a strategic advantage for any country, the ability to centrally plan how energy is generated without having to rely on the good will (and tax incentives) of millions of individual owners.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 190

ChipChop

MB Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 5, 2020
Messages
3,429
Location
Newcastle
Car
S210 320cdi w201 190d 2.5
It's all that, granted, but on the plus side EVs do remove harmful pollution away from city centers, which is where most people live and work. So there's that.
City centres are served very well by something known as public transport. Some forms of public transport have been electrified for over 100 years.

Why people who live and work in an urban environment at risk of harmful pollution choose not to use the public transport provided is a puzzle.

Maybe people who live and/or work in cities should be forced to use public transport. For the good of the environment.

In China you would get a bonus on your social credit score for such an act of altruism, maybe.
 
Last edited:

Bellow

MB Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Messages
8,017
Location
Ecosse.
Car
C2500 350, 450
What I find somewhat terrifying is that there are quite a lot of folk who seem to genuinely believe the earth is flat......
That's why MJ is in awe of those explorers who sailed......
(Don't tell him it's ball shaped).
It is an interesting question isn't it!

Some figures I found the other day, global annual energy use for transportation is about 110 quads (quadrillion BTU) which is about 32237819166666 kWh I think it's a fair assumption that nearly all of it ends up as heat.

Hourly solar energy to the surface of the earth is about 119444444444444 kWh, which gives 1.04 x 10^18 kWh per annum.

So, solar input to the planet is about 32000 x as much as burning the fuel we use ...which suggests the heat input to the 'system' from transportation is probably insignificant.
Thanks - appreciated. I've wondered for a long time what the relationship is - now I can see the sun is the dominant factor.
Transport isn't (obviously) the only contributor of heat but even with everything else added in, it's not going to bridge the gap of a factor of 32,000.
 

Bellow

MB Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Messages
8,017
Location
Ecosse.
Car
C2500 350, 450
In contrast, the national greed can be fed from coal plants, gas turbines, solar, wind, hydroelectric, nuclear....... as long as the consumer unit gets its electricity, car owners won't care how it's produced.
When EVs become dominant and electricity prices rise, I can see a term that will gain traction!
 

markjay

MB Master
SUPPORTER
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
36,908
Location
London
Car
W204 C180 Executive SE 2013 Automatic / COMAND NTG4.7 and Morel speakers fitted by www.comand.co.uk
A not often discussed side of EVs is the strategic overview.

Having lots and lots of vehicles produce their own energy on the run (I.e. ICE cars) provides a level of resilience and independence. All these cars need is some suitable liquid (or gas) to burn. Each ICE carries its own small energy generator / power plant.

With EVs, the energy production is done centrally, away from the consumer units (EV cars). So it's very easy to flick the switch and grind the entire fleet to a halt (bar those owners who have Diesel generators). Not much resilience there.

However, the central energy production has one crucial element: you can change the energy source without the consumer unit even knowing about it.

We see how any change to ICE cars via legislation and regulations takes years, decades even, to complete, because there are millions of owners that will each need to change their cars.

In contrast, the national greed can be fed from coal plants, gas turbines, solar, wind, hydroelectric, nuclear....... as long as the consumer unit gets its electricity, car owners won't care how it's produced.

And this is a strategic advantage for any country, the ability to centrally plan how energy is generated without having to rely on the good will (and tax incentives) of millions of individual owners.

Grid, rather :doh:
 

markjay

MB Master
SUPPORTER
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
36,908
Location
London
Car
W204 C180 Executive SE 2013 Automatic / COMAND NTG4.7 and Morel speakers fitted by www.comand.co.uk
City centres are served very well by something known as public transport. Some forms of public transport have been electrified for over 100 years.

Why people who live and work in an urban environment at risk of harmful pollution choose not to use the public transport provided is a puzzle.

Maybe people who live and/or work in cities should be forced to use public transport. For the good of the environment.

In China you would get a bonus on your social credit score for such an act of altruism, maybe.

I agree. As I said, I fully support closing city centres to private vehicles.
 

markjay

MB Master
SUPPORTER
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
36,908
Location
London
Car
W204 C180 Executive SE 2013 Automatic / COMAND NTG4.7 and Morel speakers fitted by www.comand.co.uk
What I find somewhat terrifying is that there are quite a lot of folk who seem to genuinely believe the earth is flat......

It is an interesting question isn't it!

Some figures I found the other day, global annual energy use for transportation is about 110 quads (quadrillion BTU) which is about 32237819166666 kWh I think it's a fair assumption that nearly all of it ends up as heat.

Hourly solar energy to the surface of the earth is about 119444444444444 kWh, which gives 1.04 x 10^18 kWh per annum.

So, solar input to the planet is about 32000 x as much as burning the fuel we use ...which suggests the heat input to the 'system' from transportation is probably insignificant.

In the case of electrical components, e.g. computers electricity is converted to heat, bar fans and hard disk drives where a small amount is converted to kinetic energy.

In the case of vehicles, a significant amount of energy is converted to kinetic energy (vehicle accelerating) and to potential energy (vehicle going uphill).

So the amount of kWh that ends up as heat will only be a proportion of the overall amount if energy consumed by transport.
 
D

Deleted member 126969

Guest
And a percentage of them deny what happened back then.
What I find somewhat terrifying is that there are quite a lot of folk who seem to genuinely believe the earth is flat......
Interesting question. My gut feeling is that the sun's energy is far more powerful than whatever heat cars generate, and even a tiny increase in the amount that gets through the atmosphere will be far more significant. But I don't know.
It is an interesting question isn't it!

Some figures I found the other day, global annual energy use for transportation is about 110 quads (quadrillion BTU) which is about 32237819166666 kWh I think it's a fair assumption that nearly all of it ends up as heat.

Hourly solar energy to the surface of the earth is about 119444444444444 kWh, which gives 1.04 x 10^18 kWh per annum.

So, solar input to the planet is about 32000 x as much as burning the fuel we use ...which suggests the heat input to the 'system' from transportation is probably insignificant.
In the case of electrical components, e.g. computers electricity is converted to heat, bar fans and hard disk drives where a small amount is converted to kinetic energy.

In the case of vehicles, a significant amount of energy is converted to kinetic energy (vehicle accelerating) and to potential energy (vehicle going uphill).

So the amount of kWh that ends up as heat will only be a proportion of the overall amount if energy consumed by transport.
Any potential energy gained is on average going to get converted back to kinetic again (unless all our vehicles end up parked on mountain tops and never come back down), and all the kinetic ends up as heat anyway eventually, as none of our vehicles are frictionless nor move in a vacuum. Just entropy at work.
 

Tonygw

Active Member
Joined
May 30, 2019
Messages
776
Location
Leicestershire
Car
C250 CDI AMG Blue efficiency diesel
I've tried to answer the OP questions but feel free to add to my answers

1. I have heard that petrol cars don’t refuel at home while you sleep? How often do you have to refuel elsewhere? Is this several time a year? Will the future bring a solution for refuelling at home?
Yes you can refuel at home if you can store petrol in large quantities. Should be easy enough

2. Which parts will need servicing and how often? The salesman mentioned a box with gears in it. What is this ?
No parts ever need servicing? Just drive until it goes bang easy..

3. Can I accelerate and brake with one pedal as I do today with my electric car?
Yes of course you can, just be aware when using the accelerator pedal only, your stopping distances will be huge. so plan ahead.... again easy to do

4. Do I get fuel back when I slow down or drive downhill ? I assume so but I need to ask to make sure?
yes but you need a tanker to drive along side to add fuel when going down hill.. NO issues there

5. The car I test drove today seemed to have a delay from the time I pressed the accelerator pedal until it began to accelerate. Is that normal?
Yes this is normal, the computers and mechanicals spend most of their time sleeping, they need to be woken up sometimes

6. I currently pay about 2-3p per mile to drive my electric car. I have hear petrol can cost 5 or more times as much so I reckon I will lose some money in the beginning. I drive about 20,000 miles a year. Let’s hope more people will start using petrol so prices go down.
I am sure it will become very cheap very soon, some cars even run on chip fat

7. Is it true that petrol is flammable? Should I empty the tank and store the petrol elsewhere while the car is in the garage ?
Petrol is only flammable when exposed to a spark or naked flame, try to avoid this scenario

8. Is there an automatic system to prevent petrol from catching fire in an accident - how does it work?
I think the driver is the main ingredient here, but its 50-50 as to how effective the driver can be

9. I understand that the main ingredient in petrol is oil. Is it true that the extraction and refining of oil caused environmental problems as well as conflicts and wars that over the last 100 years may have cost millions of lives ? Is there a solution to this ?
Oil is the most organic substance known to man, its basically rotting organic material its good for everybody. especially vegans..

10. I have heard that cars with internal combustion based engines are being barred from more and more cities around the world, as it is claimed that they tend to harm the environment and health of their citizens? is that true?
It is true, but they are a lot of fun
 

Bellow

MB Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Messages
8,017
Location
Ecosse.
Car
C2500 350, 450
Over the various threads there have been posts about how with battery depletion (over its life span) the available range becomes less. When that happens, does it still take the same time to charge it to its new maximum capacity as it did to charge it to its maximum capacity when it was new?
 

Tonygw

Active Member
Joined
May 30, 2019
Messages
776
Location
Leicestershire
Car
C250 CDI AMG Blue efficiency diesel
That's a good question, In all my experience with Lithium batteries there are two scenarios I have seen. 1. It would be noticeably quicker since the energy required to get the battery to full voltage is less since the capacity is reduced. (A 3.4Ah cell may be reduced to half that at 1.7Ah but still read full voltage)
2. The battery may not get to full voltage and may only ever get to 80-90% or less charge so it would continue to charge until told stop by the app or controller.
 

Bellow

MB Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Messages
8,017
Location
Ecosse.
Car
C2500 350, 450
Thinking about it, scenario # 1 is what I've seen with my lithium vape batteries as they wane. They go flat sooner but recharge more quickly. Hopefully the same for EVs as otherwise cars with batteries half way shot would be charging twice as often at the full duration. Which at a rough guess would add 25% or so to the grid's load.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom