Rate my Bottle (aka how old is this ale?)

[Spinal]

Howdy!

A very off topic one tonight... As some of you know, I work in a very old building full of creepy nooks and crannies...

I was crawling in one of the lofts, worrying about the possibility of asbestos and beehives (or asbestos mutated bees...) and I stumbled across this bottle...

It's sealed (or looks/feels sealed) and has a bit of thick gunk inside. My guess is that whatever was in there (ale?) evaporated and left the dark brown gunk... The other alternative is that it held oil (like floorboard oil) and that's what is left inside....

Any ideas on dates? I've fiddled with the contrast to make the label more leggible, and am trying to preserve the dust on the bottle (need to buy a box for it). I've asked one of our database admins, who can't seem to remember this bottle as far back as he's been drinking ale...

Any more information on this would be great! Label reads:

Top Curve: Observe that the cork or caps...<ripped>
Top Curve Title: Whitbread & Co Ltd
Middle: Trade Mark (with a llama or some animal head in between)
Bottled By
Whitbread&Co
London
Bottom Curve Title: Family Ale
Bottom Curve: When empty please destroy the label

TiA,
Michele

 

[A210AMG]

Whitbread was set up by Samuel Whitbread who established a partnership with Thomas Shewell in 1742, taking on the name Whitbread & Co Ltd in 1799. In 1750 Samuel Whitbread moved his brewing operations to premises in Chiswell Street on the eastern rim of Georgian London, establishing the first purpose-built mass-production brewery in Britain.
Over the next 200 years Whitbread & Co introduced many brands to the UK market, such as Stella Artois and Heineken, alongside its own brands, which grew in popularity in the second half of the 20th century, before declining in the 1990s as people migrated to more international brands such as Fosters and Budweiser.
After a long history of brewing, the company, now known as Whitbread Group Plc decided in 2001 to sell all its breweries and brewing interests (Whitbread Brewing Company) to Interbrew, now known as InBev. Whitbread-branded alcoholic beverages are still available in the UK, such as canned Whitbread bitter, but these are not produced by InBev, merely produced under licence by other producers. InBev controls the use of the Whitbread brand, and the hind's head logo, for use on beverages. Its pub estate became known as the Laurel Pub Company.
Today, the streamlined Whitbread business has no brewing interests and has moved into the service and leisure sector.
Echoing this shift in business focus, the Whitbread & Co brewery building at 52 Chiswell Street, London still survives, but is now used as a conference and events venue. Beer was last brewed at the site in April 1976. The site itself was only recently sold by Whitbread Group plc to an investment firm as the company looks to return value to its shareholders. This decision has been seen by some in the company as "selling the family silver", as Whitbread sought to distance itself from its history.



from Wiki ??

 

[IanA2]

I'd guess it was 50's

 

[Spinal]

Echoing this shift in business focus, the Whitbread & Co brewery building at 52 Chiswell Street, London still survives, but is now used as a conference and events venue. Beer was last brewed at the site in April 1976. The site itself was only recently sold by Whitbread Group plc to an investment firm as the company looks to return value to its shareholders. This decision has been seen by some in the company as "selling the family silver", as Whitbread sought to distance itself from its history.



from Wiki ??

So does this mean that they haven't brewed in London since 1976? So the bottle is at least that old?

 

[verytalldave]

A complete guess.
Pre-war. Around 1930ish.
Put it on ebay and somebody will buy it.

Just had a quick Google around and it could be even earlier.........maybe 1911.....

Why not post a question on this - or a similar - forum.....somebody will know ! ! ! ! !
http://www.the-beer-drinkers-forum.co.uk/

Alternatively.............try these people............
http://www.breweryhistory.com/





Good luck.......

 

[A210AMG]

History of WhitBread..

1742: After working as an apprentice, Samuel Whitbread establishes his own brewery in London.
1750: Whitbread opens a second brewery on Chiswell Street.
1760: The annual output of the company's stout and porter has reached 64,000 barrels.
1834: Ale is added to the product line.
1868: Production of bottled beer begins.
1889: The company goes public.
1955: Whitbread begins expanding through the acquisition of smaller brewers, eventually by 1971 taking over 26 regional breweries.
1968: The company gains the right to brew Heineken lager under license.
1974: The first Beefeater restaurant opens.
1982: Whitbread enters a joint venture with PepsiCo, Inc. to open Pizza Hut restaurants in the United Kingdom.
1985: The company signs a franchise agreement to develop U.K.-based outlets of the T.G.I. Friday's casual dining chain.
1987: The Travel Inn budget hotel chain is launched.
1989: Boddingtons brewery is acquired; a decision to focus principally on hotels and restaurants, while retaining brewery operations, leads to the sale of the wine and spirits division to Allied-Lyons.
1990: The Monopolies and Mergers Commission issues an order related to its investigation of the U.K. system of tied houses, leading Whitbread to sell 1,300 of its pubs and lease another 1,000 by 1992.
1995: Whitbread purchases 16 Marriott hotels and signs an agreement with Marriott International to develop the brand in the United Kingdom; the company acquires the David Lloyd Leisure chain of sports and fitness clubs; the Costa Coffee chain of coffee shops is acquired.
1999: Whitbread's bid to acquire the U.K. retailing operations of Allied Domecq--including 3,500 pubs--fails.
2000: Swallow Group, operator of 36 upscale hotels, is acquired; Whitbread Beer Company is sold to Interbrew S.A.
2001: The company's pub operations are sold to Morgan Grenfell Private Equity.

 

[IanA2]

I think pre war attitudes to drink hadn't got round to Family......that's why I'm guessing post war......does the winner get not to drink it....

 

[A210AMG]

It could be very old

"1868: Production of bottled beer begins."





...

 

[Spinal]

I think pre war attitudes to drink hadn't got round to Family......that's why I'm guessing post war......does the winner get not to drink it....

I thought on the same lines - that "family" would not be modern... they'de have all hell break loose...

That said, I wouldn't have guessed it was THAT old! On the roof itself, I found a chimney full of inscriptions... notice the 1946, 1947 (this was used as a hospital by the RAF apparently, so I'm guessing they might have had lookouts on the roof?) and maybe more importantly, the 1887 one!

I don't think you'de want to drink it... it really looks ... "wrong"... I'm thinking of buying a glass cover (saw one the other day at the mall) and leaving it on a shelf somewhere...

I'm also thinking of buying a bottle of port and putting it back in there... it CLEARLY doesn't get much use! Apparently, no-one knew there was this access hatch and it took someone like me insisting that the floor was hollow (and subsequently the roof of the basement) had to have something in between!

It turns out, I'll be able to get all the cables I need passed with minimal cost Now I'm just curious as to the bottles age!

Michele

 

[BTB 500]

I went on a school trip to the London brewery in the mid-70s.

Whitbread sold their big hop farm at Beltring in Kent (near Paddock Wood) in 1997. It's now the "Hop Farm Country Park".

 

[IanA2]

I went to the Dublin my goodness it's good for you brewery with the Scouts in the 60's......we even got a glass of the good stuff....don't imagine that would happen these days

 

[Spinal]

Found this:
http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages...115372032&images=115372032&formats=0&format=0

which was in a magazine in 1952... I can't really tell, but it does seem like a similar lable... The bottle is quite different though, so I think eliminating 1952 is a good bet...

I'm thinking of looking for as many adverts as I can, I might find enough to eliminate most years... (or be lucky and find the right one )

Michele

 

[dougal74]

My Dad has a few bottles dating back to the 70s. These all have metal caps. This looks very different (cork?) which probably dates the bottle to earlier. There used to be a Whitbread Brewery in Faversham but it is now a Tesco, only Sheps remains. The boys across the road in the pub would know but unfortunately I'm in Amsterdam at the moment - sorry Spinal.

Pale Ale tends to come in slimmer bottles so it doesn't really have a bearing on this.

I would guess intra-war.

 

[gaz_l]

Interesting find.. from the "family ale" marker, it could be pre-WW1..

http://www.india-pale-ale.com/rise.html

Cheers,

Gaz

 

[Spinal]

I left the bottle in my office (no safe place to carry it on my bike...) and now I'm regretting it:
http://www.sha.org/bottle/dating.htm
That seems like quite a good source, albeit they focus more on the US. Going by memory, I'm getting pre-1930, post 1870 (vaguely). I'll be more accurate on Monday...

Seems like a good find

Michele