Revenue or Safety?

[st13phil]

I genuinely find that mindset depressing.

Presumably senior Police officers with that mindset depress you too?

Here's what Paul Garvin, then chief constable of the Durham constabulary had to say in 2004:

"The pro-camera lobby, and a lot of the safety partnerships, deliberately misquote the statistics to try and mislead people to try and justify their position. I think it is disingenuous if we are really intent on reducing casualties on the road - as opposed to enforcing speed limits and dishing out lots of tickets.

"More accidents are caused by inattention, drink driving, or, nowadays, more by driving under the influence of drugs. And these statistics adopted by certain forces show a woolly area regarding the proximity of speed cameras. Some statistics are taken from an area 20m from a camera and others from a 2km radius. The speed cameras issue is not a point of principle, it is a fact that they are pointless."

"This force is not soft on speeding motorists. Our officers issue 7,000 speeding tickets a year. We adopt an intelligence-led approach by looking at persistent offenders and also targeting drink and drug driving and bad driving."​

And that neatly sums it up. Inappropriate use of speed on public roads is dangerous and it needs to be detected and the offenders punished. However, by making the detection and sanction process automated and not linked to other factors such as the driver's awareness, traffic conditions, presence or absence of hazards, etc. it devalues the sanction in the mind of many. It's instructive to talk openly with a group of people, perhaps work colleagues or friends, many of whom will have 3, 6, or 9 points on their licence as a result of being sanctioned for minor speed infractions. Speeding penalties are so commonplace that most treat the collection of fines and points as an "occupational hazard" of driving. The current medicine isn't working, and that is what you need to be depressed about.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

To be fair to the OP, there have been local sections of motorway to be where there has never been any congestion issues. (I travelled daily and all sorts of times) and they still converted it to SMART. Fitting 1 million speed cameras & causing months of traffic jams in the process

What about the M4 passing Bristol?

You must drive that road regularly and benefit from the variable speed limits?

Plus you get the pleasure of booting it once you pass the M32 exit and entering the national speed limit again.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

A distance of say 3 miles at 50mph would take 3 mins 36 secs.

The same at 70mph would take 2 mins 34 secs.

That’s a whole 1 min and 2 seconds more you could be down the pub

Or to take Eddy’s example of an extra 5 minutes at 50 instead of 70mph, you’d have to travel 14.58 miles at the lower speed. You do have to wonder what we’re all so bothered about.

 

[E53AMG]

I genuinely find that mindset depressing.

I hope that you are in the minority.

I am also astonished at the naivety of the average UK citizen, but then again 30 years serving in the legal profession has perhaps given me a warped view of the public and authorities!

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[Deleted member 6183]

Presumably senior Police officers with that mindset depress you too?

Here's what Paul Garvin, then chief constable of the Durham constabulary had to say in 2004:

"The pro-camera lobby, and a lot of the safety partnerships, deliberately misquote the statistics to try and mislead people to try and justify their position. I think it is disingenuous if we are really intent on reducing casualties on the road - as opposed to enforcing speed limits and dishing out lots of tickets.

"More accidents are caused by inattention, drink driving, or, nowadays, more by driving under the influence of drugs. And these statistics adopted by certain forces show a woolly area regarding the proximity of speed cameras. Some statistics are taken from an area 20m from a camera and others from a 2km radius. The speed cameras issue is not a point of principle, it is a fact that they are pointless."

"This force is not soft on speeding motorists. Our officers issue 7,000 speeding tickets a year. We adopt an intelligence-led approach by looking at persistent offenders and also targeting drink and drug driving and bad driving."​

And that neatly sums it up. Inappropriate use of speed on public roads is dangerous and it needs to be detected and the offenders punished. However, by making the detection and sanction process automated and not linked to other factors such as the driver's awareness, traffic conditions, presence or absence of hazards, etc. it devalues the sanction in the mind of many. It's instructive to talk openly with a group of people, perhaps work colleagues or friends, many of whom will have 3, 6, or 9 points on their licence as a result of being sanctioned for minor speed infractions. Speeding penalties are so commonplace that most treat the collection of fines and points as an "occupational hazard" of driving. The current medicine isn't working, and that is what you need to be depressed about.

I don't think that smart motorways existed in 2004.

 

[st13phil]

I don't think that smart motorways existed in 2004.

Jeez...

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Jeez...

Really?

 

[E53AMG]

Or to take Eddy’s example of an extra 5 minutes at 50 instead of 70mph, you’d have to travel 14.58 miles at the lower speed. You do have to wonder what we’re all so bothered about.

Many a time I have driven through roadworks for 15+ miles at 45mph without a worker in sight, so why do we need the speed limit when no-one is working. If you charge £550 p/h for your time that is a lot of lost income over a year.

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[E53AMG]

I don't think that smart motorways existed in 2004.

I don't think they exist now if you share my point of view [emoji16]

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[Deleted member 6183]

Many a time I have driven through roadworks for 15+ miles at 45mph without a worker in sight, so why do we need the speed limit when no-one is working. If you charge £550 p/h for your time that is a lot of lost income over a year.

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£550p/h for travelling time, your thread is here:

Flat Earth Convention in Birmingham

 

[clk320x]

What about the M4 passing Bristol?

You must drive that road regularly and benefit from the variable speed limits?

Plus you get the pleasure of booting it once you pass the M32 exit and entering the national speed limit again.

Haha, that is true.

I don’t mind the M4 by Bristol smart section as it is only a couple of miles long. It does actually seem to work quite well.

 

[clk320x]

Many a time I have driven through roadworks for 15+ miles at 45mph without a worker in sight, so why do we need the speed limit when no-one is working. If you charge £550 p/h for your time that is a lot of lost income over a year.

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Get a helicopter

 

[st13phil]

Really?

Yup. It's like trying to have a dialogue with the (deliberately) deaf

 

[E53AMG]

Get a helicopter

Not enough helipads around [emoji22]

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[Bobby Dazzler]

Many a time I have driven through roadworks for 15+ miles at 45mph without a worker in sight, so why do we need the speed limit when no-one is working. If you charge £550 p/h for your time that is a lot of lost income over a year.

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Perhaps there could be a faster lane for those earning more than £500 per hour? After all it is a lot of lost income. It could be close to £80 if travelling at 45 MPH rather than £70 MPH for 15 miles. I'm sure earning £550 per hour during the times you're not driving softens the blow though.

 

[clk320x]

Not enough helipads around [emoji22]

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Get a winch

 

[clk320x]

Perhaps there could be a faster lane for those earning more than £500 per hour? After all it is a lot of lost income

Can't tell if you are being sarcastic or serious Rob

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Yup. It's like trying to have a dialogue with the (deliberately) deaf

To me it's a bit like talking to someone who has read too many motoring forums and can't

Yup. It's like trying to have a dialogue with the (deliberately) deaf

Infamy, infamy!

 

[markjay]

I think the police should just auction sets of magnetic blue lights with the proceedings going to a policemen's charity.

 

[219]

Perhaps there could be a faster lane for those earning more than £500 per hour? After all it is a lot of lost income. It could be close to £80 if travelling at 45 MPH rather than £70 MPH for 15 miles. I'm sure earning £550 per hour during the times you're not driving softens the blow though.

Or perhaps the speeding fines should be linked to income so that the well off feel the pain as much as the less well off .